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Star Wars and former Jedi

^ The Jedi, however, were not the only Force-sensitive sect in the galaxy. The Kel Dor have the Baran Do; Dathomir has its Witches, various tribes of Force users, including the Dark Side wielding Nightsisters; the Fallanassi, or Adepts of the White Current, live on Nam Chorios; there are the Aing-Tii monks; and there are the Jensaarai, who blended Jedi and Sith teachings, to name but a few examples.
 
^ The Jedi, however, were not the only Force-sensitive sect in the galaxy. The Kel Dor have the Baran Do; Dathomir has its Witches, various tribes of Force users, including the Dark Side wielding Nightsisters; the Fallanassi, or Adepts of the White Current, live on Nam Chorios; there are the Aing-Tii monks; and there are the Jensaarai, who blended Jedi and Sith teachings, to name but a few examples.

You're talking about races that didn't exist when the OT came out and what's onscreen counts first when it comes to Star Wars canon. Han also said that he's been from one side of the galaxy to the other and still isn't convinced of any "mystical energy field controlling his destiny.".
 
^ In this thread, it all counts. sbk1234 specifically included the EU in his original post, so it's fair game for this thread.
 
^ In this thread, it all counts. sbk1234 specifically included the EU in his original post, so it's fair game for this thread.

But has any of those races been used to keep an eye on the fallen Jedi is what the question was.

Has it ever been mentioned in the EU that the Jedi keep tabs on these former Jedi and make sure that they don't really start abusing their powers?

The question was really never answered.
 
Good point. I got distracted by just replying to your post in the context of an EU-encompassing discussion.

So far as I'm aware, the Old Jedi Order didn't track its former members. Of course, in AOTC, Jocasta Nu asserted that only twenty* Jedi had ever left the Order, so there may not have ever been more than one at a time to consider anyway.

Whether that was meant to reference Jedi who had merely "resigned" from the Order, Jedi who had fallen to the Dark Side, or both, however, isn't entirely clear. I'm personally in favor of interpreting it as Jedi who had left but had not necessarily fallen; otherwise, EU stories almost assuredly go above that number, if you have to factor in fallen Jedi like Ulic Qel-Droma, Exar Kun, Revan, Malak, and so on. I'd also prefer to interpret it as excluding any Jedi who had been exiled from the Order, such as Kreia (Arren Kae?) or the Jedi Exile.

The closest to "keeping tabs" that the Old Order came, I think, would be in making use of initiates who had not passed their trials by incorporating them into the various Service Corps: Agricultural, Medical, Educational, and Exploration. Those who had not passed their trials weren't cast out of the Order, but welcomed as Jedi who could still use the Force to do good in the galaxy - they just weren't going to continue their training at an academy and ever be Knighted. Also, as fett51 mentioned, a trilogy in The Clone Wars featured "the Citadel," a prison built at some point many years prior to the war to incarcerate fallen Jedi.

As far as I can recall, the New Jedi Order has to date (as of the time period covered in Fate of the Jedi) only ever had two former members who had not fallen to the Dark Side. Tahiri Veila had started down that path during Legacy of the Force and was redeemed, but chose not to rejoin the Order. The second is Tenel Ka Djo, who "left" the Order to become the Queen Mother of Hapes but, of course, still maintains close ties to the Order. The only other "former Jedi" I can think of at the moment during the existence of the New Order are fallen Jedi - all of whom, so far as I can recall, are also dead at this point.

So far as we know, those other groups I mentioned before didn't really have "former" members. Plo Koon "left" the Baran Do to become a Jedi Knight, so the Baran Do had no reason to track him out of concern for possible future actions. The Fallanassi and Aiing-Ti Monks are both rather insular, keeping mainly to themselves except when outsiders come to visit (and the Aiing-Ti rarely allow visitors). The Jensaarai are somewhat allied with the New Order and some have been trained by the Order, but they've been lightly explored in the EU for the most part. The Witches of Dathomir rarely leave their planet, to the best of my recollection; Teneniel Djo, mother of Tenel Ka, is one such prominent exception.

(* In Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader, Vader introduces himself to one Jedi as "the twenty-first.")
 
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Frankly, the whole "Empire suppressed the Jedi" thing to the point that hardly anyone remembered them never made much sense. I mean, were folks really going to forget about the super-powered guys who fought in the Clone Wars only 19 years in the past? Assuming Han was Harrison Ford's age he'd have been about 15/16 at the time, did he just ignore the war and the stories?
 
Frankly, the whole "Empire suppressed the Jedi" thing to the point that hardly anyone remembered them never made much sense. I mean, were folks really going to forget about the super-powered guys who fought in the Clone Wars only 19 years in the past? Assuming Han was Harrison Ford's age he'd have been about 15/16 at the time, did he just ignore the war and the stories?

I don't know there as what some 10,000 Jedi in hte time of the PT? They were pretty rare and I'd say the Jedi were dying out anyway. And they kept their own secrets so nobody knew or believed in the Force once they were gone.
 
Temis the Vorta said:
However, there does need to be a biological element or Force sensitivity cannot be inherited.

Then "forgetting" midichlorians exist actually won't work.

Temis the Vorta said:
There was never any reason to give that biological element a name and exaggerate its importance in the scheme of things

The PT doesn't exaggerate its importance any more than the OT, in which its importance is eventually front and center. There is no reason to not give it a name, or for the viewer to resist a name.
 
There's also the question of those who fail the training. I think the Expanded Universe mentions that jedi drop-outs join some kind of agricultural corps....


As for knowledge of the force, while Han doesn't believe, the Rebel alliance generals and admirals-who are not Jedi-use "May the force be with you/us" twice in the original trilogy.
 
There's also the question of those who fail the training. I think the Expanded Universe mentions that jedi drop-outs join some kind of agricultural corps....
There was a whole range of Service Corps, as I mentioned a few posts back. ;)

As far as the New Jedi Order goes, it appears that Luke Skywalker decided not to implement a similar system, perhaps instead embracing each of those disciplines more generally into the rather limited number of Jedi in the galaxy even by Fate of the Jedi.
 
Temis the Vorta said:
However, there does need to be a biological element or Force sensitivity cannot be inherited.

Then "forgetting" midichlorians exist actually won't work.

Works for me.

Temis the Vorta said:
There was never any reason to give that biological element a name and exaggerate its importance in the scheme of things

The PT doesn't exaggerate its importance any more than the OT, in which its importance is eventually front and center. There is no reason to not give it a name, or for the viewer to resist a name.

The PT exaggerates its importance not by commission but omission. Just throwing out a bit of technobabble to explain something we already suspect (there's some biological element to Force sensitivity) isn't the problem. The larger problem is that it's the only explanation we get. The Mortis Arc from TCW is the kind of thing we needed to get in the PT as a counterbalance, that there's a whole non-biological, mystical aspect to the Force that is the "real" reason for it all.

The midi-whatsits are just the way the Cosmos or Fate enforces its will to keep the Force in balance/throw the Force out of balance/test Force users or whatever the frak it is that's really going on.

The logic of it all is still unclear and it's not terribly important that it be completely clarified, because mystical ideas need to stay mysterious or they get deflated like a popped balloon. The point is, there needs to be a sense that "something is really going on," and it's not just little technobabbly things in Jedi and Sith bloodstreams, because that's far too disappointingly mundane for a story that should be grandiose and epic.

But since TCW serves as a band-aid to the problems of the PT, I'll just decide that the Mortis Arc "could" have been in the movies - in fact, it was in the overall story, just not shown till now - and that solves the biggest single problem that the PT had (other than the depiction of Anakin, which the PT has also rectified.)

Frankly, the whole "Empire suppressed the Jedi" thing to the point that hardly anyone remembered them never made much sense. I mean, were folks really going to forget about the super-powered guys who fought in the Clone Wars only 19 years in the past? Assuming Han was Harrison Ford's age he'd have been about 15/16 at the time, did he just ignore the war and the stories?

I don't think we need to take Han's comment literally. He knew very well that the Jedi existed and there were probably still Force-sensitive people running around all over the place.

But it wasn't something he wanted to have in his own little slice of reality, where everyone is equal and a blaster is the ultimate equalizer. He's not the kind of guy who takes well to the notion of being inherently inferior to others, and the implication that this old guy and the goofball blond kid tagging along behind him might be fundamentally superior in "unfair" ways would have rankled him very badly. So he got in some sarcastic digs, that's all.
 
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

If people don't want to accept that fine, but I doubt if Han had seen a Jedi Knight til he saw Ben Kenobi. Han was the agnostic of the group and didn't quite believe until the end when he tells Luke, "May the Force be with you." but even that sounded forced so to speak in my mind.:shrug:
 
Even if he had met a Jedi personally, he might have decided the Jedi were just a pack of con-men, because it suits his worldview and his personality to believe that. Even if in his gut he believes differently, he wouldn't admit that to himself, much less others. In a dangerous galaxy, you can't afford admit any kind of weakness, including a belief in something more powerful than yourself. Han projects the message that he's always the strongest guy in the room because that's the only way he's survived so far.

And he certainly wouldn't believe that he'd meet one of the legendary, all-powerful Jedi in a scuzzy cantina. To him, that would just be proof that the Jedi are con-men, whose bullshit was exposed by the Empire and they've been on the run ever since. Not to say that the Empire is any better. Empire, Jedi, or a criminal gang run by Hutts, they're all equal in Han's eyes. The galaxy is a jungle and the game is survival of the fittest.
 
Even if he had met a Jedi personally, he might have decided the Jedi were just a pack of con-men, because it suits his worldview and his personality to believe that.

He had to have been about 10 years old to have met a Jedi before he met Obi-Wan since Order 66 wiped out all but two Jedi, there's been no Jedi for about 20 years by the time of the first movie. I can't see Han being any more than 10 yers older than Luke and Leia if that.
 
Works for me.

But you say there does need to be a biological element.

The PT exaggerates its importance not by commission but omission. Just throwing out a bit of technobabble to explain something we already suspect (there's some biological element to Force sensitivity) isn't the problem. The larger problem is that it's the only explanation we get.

Then the OT similarly fails by omission, if the same standards are used, and thus exaggerates the importance to no lesser degree.
 
Maybe Han not beliving in Jedi id the side effect of Quinlan Vos erasing some memories.

Han only believes what he sees and I'm sure seeing Vader deflect his blaster bolts and pull his gun out of hand by using the Force had an effect on him. And he did tell Luke "May the Force be with you." before the final battle in the first movie.
 
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