Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by oswater, Feb 5, 2013.
no. unneccessary and unhelpful is saying 'i don't find it offensive therefore no one else should'.
Wow, tough crowd.
^^^ No one has said that in this forum.
I've defended the filmmakers on their right to make the video, but there is still plenty I find offensive about it. It's shock humour, and it's meant to be offensive.
As with anything like this, if you don't like it, change the channel. Plenty of other fan films to choose from
Well, of course they have the "right" to make this video. No one is suggesting otherwise. But having the right to do something isn't the same thing as HAVING to do it.
There's freedom of speech in this country, I have the right to make a video using every offensive word, slur and stereotype there is. I can do that, it's my right. But that doesn't mean it won't be offensive to people.
And, really, we should be in an "advanced" enough society that doesn't tolerate such parodies and caricatures. I go back to my black-face reference above. If a movie was made today with white men playing black men using black face and other offensive features common to turn-of-the-(last)century performances (big, red lips, monkey/ape-like features people would call it offensive and would rightfully protest the movie.
It shouldn't be tolerated to treat a group of people in such a manner and that's how I feel about this gay-stereotype in the video. It's highly offensive and its very obviously a gay stereotype. Sure they have the right to do it, and I support that right, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be offended by this depiction. Even if it was under the guise of the character "being a woman."
Humour is a tricky thing. You are always going to risk offending some people. Last night during the Oscars, I saw William Shatner, dressed as Captain Kirk, make a black-face joke and a gay joke (both at the expense of the host). I then saw a talking toy bear named Ted take the stage and make jokes about Jewish people owning Hollywood. These jokes were told to an audience of an estimated 1 billion people. We may be a technologically "advanced" society, but we aren't quite at the 24th Century level of tolerance just yet.
As for white men playing black men in movies, Robert Downey Jr. was nominated for the Academy Award in 2008 for his portrayal of "Lazarus" - a white man who dyed his skin to look black - in the comedy "Tropic Thunder".
Yes, I'm aware. But the point of that joke was that he was an actor "over playing" the role of a black man. He wasn't a caricature of a black man he was a caricature of a white man PLAYING a black man.
That's very, very, different than a minstrel show, which is what I was talking about where white men put on "black face" with exaggerated facial features (RDJ was made to look like an actual black person) and played extreme stereotypes of black people with the intent of the characters BEING BLACK.
It may be different, but that didn't stop some people from being offended and publicly protesting "Tropic Thunder" when it was released in theatres. RDJ may have been made to look like a real black person, but his performance still played on racial stereotypes throughout the entire film.
Put that was the joke. And the Tropic Thunder protests were not over the black-face (the movie was screened in front of a black audience and the NAACP who loved it and approved) it was protested for the "Full Retard" scene.
I am a non stereotypical gay male and I do find this offensive, the gay cure joke my question to those on here that are defending this joke: Do you really think being gay is a disease? Is this Troi character really how you view all people of the LGTBQ community? Does this mean you want to cure me and all of the people of the community?
it doesn't matter how the author intended for the joke to be or who wrote it. the public does not know you, or know your background.
And I agree if troy was really supposed to be a drag queen, as a man portraying a woman, then the film maker should have made it obvious that they were. A wig doesn't cost that much, go to any Halloween store, or costume shop, not that I have any. if you were going for the skin suite idea that 7 of 9 / t'pol l troi wore, you could still do it. T'Pol's skin suit from the later seasons of enterprise was just a yoga jacket and yoga pants lol. this troi character has no fake boobs, has a mustache(the only drag ive seen with a mustache was a girl being a guy), and talks with a southern baptist accent.
you talk about Seth McFarland and the gay joke of the Oscars.
according to wikipedia:
MacFarlane came to support gay rights and gay marriage after a family member wondered aloud whether his gay cousin's homosexuality could be "cured". The incident angered MacFarlane, who said in a 2008 interview in The Advocate, that such a statement "was fucking horrifying to hear from somebody that you love". He credits his parents for raising him to be a logical person.
Not that I am saying that I love the creators, but to hear from star trek, which i love and albeit from a low budget fan film, it is like star trek fans are supposed to be more enlightened then this.
Of course we don't think that homosexuality is a disease.
Troy isn't how we view the LGTBQ community. All the characters are all different in their own ways including the skirt chasing robot, the closeted Captain and the Klingon who likes to be addressed as Mom. I don't want to "cure" homosexuality. The joke is that people being "cured" of their homosexuality is a silly archaic notion and when played in an Utopian future setting, it's immediately juxtaposed with what actually is happening. You're supposed to laugh at the ludicrousness of it all.
That might not be a good excuse to you but honestly nobody knows what's funny or how people will react until people see it.
Also, you can't say I can't make these jokes based on that people don't know my background and then defend another person making equally offensive jokes by giving a piece of information from their background.
So in short: We don't hate gay people. We don't think you're diseased and Troy doesn't represent your entire community.
We're just a few guys looking to get a laugh.
im sorry but seth's joke that was brought up from the Oscars was in 2015 he joins the LA gay men's choir.
completely different from your joke that the gay was cured long before the setting of your film. you know who else wanted to cure a minority from the earth? Hitler.
You do know that Hitler was literally KILLING gay people, right? There is a reason I created "Star Trek Restricted" and this film clearly falls within its parameters. That said, I don't watch all fan films I list at Star Trek Reviewed and thanks to y'all and your comments, I didn't watch this one.
The joke at the Oscars was that Seth would be "coming out of the closet" in 2015, by joining the Gay Men's Choir. Seth has been rumoured to be gay for years, and he played up on that with that joke. It was funny, and it got a laugh.
As for this fan film, the joke, from how I interpreted it, was that homosexuality wasn't cured at all. The bridge crew where telling themselves that it was, because the characters are a bunch of ignorant jackasses. The Director said that he knows the idea of homosexuality being "cured" is ridiculous, and that they played up on that ridiculousness by joking about it.
Reductio ad Hitlerum? Really?
I still liked it and hope the film makers continue and improve.
It didn't work for me.
From my perspective, the Troy character was not at all convincing as a female character, and a very convincing portrayal of a male in drag. I also didn't think the other characters reacted to Troy as if Troy were female, but more as if they were humoring a male pretending to be female.
I'm old enough to have seen both vaudeville and panto performed live, though not in their heyday, and in my experience the clearly visible mustache is more a sign of a male character impersonating a female one than one of a male actor taking a female role.
As for the humor, most of it relied on things I don't find funny, and so it didn't draw me in.
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