Star Trek's Troubling 50th Anniversary

[Amaris]

Yes, ornamentally so, which is not really much.

But who am I kidding. My brother will be there opening night, which pretty much means I'll be there opening night. But he'll be buying, gorram it, so at least my conscience is clear.

You're going to love it!

Prior experience suggests no. But I would love to be proved wrong.

Well, I'll have enough confidence for both of us.

 

[Malaika]

Wait so Simon Pegg is writing the script? Please tell me it's a bad joke.
I guess the rumor might as well be true because it seems that he well-connected to the new director..
really, help me being optimistic about Pegg making trek 3 too because I dunno..
The fact that he plays one of the characters is a problem because he's likely to give more screentime to Scotty at the expense of other characters. Come on.
I like Scotty as comic relief but not to the extent that it gets old and takes over every moment becoming redundant.

Eta: I voted WORRIED even before I read the last rumor..

 

[Maurice]

Hey Dennis, how would you make a Trek series?

You're knowledgeable in the workings of viewers and television creation.

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable.

I'd ask them to go after the rights to Forbidden Planet and let me do something with that instead. And then I'd ask Mike Okuda if he were willing to be the art director.

I thought you'd say "Polaris".

Me, I'd start by figuring out what the "bottom" of the show is: who it's about and why we should care. I'd also figure out what the themes of the show are and what kinds of characters and conflicts would best illustrate it. I'd then make a list of "don'ts", which I do for any project. I figure out what doesn't appeal to me and what's lazy and banish them: the transporter as we know it would be the first thing to go, as would human-alien hybrids, and virtual reality type holodeck things (which just encourage the writers to make episodes in genres which aren't the show... if you want to write a 60s spy show, write it for some other show). I'd also look into which good science fiction short stories and radio plays might make a suitable basis for episodes and buy the rights to those (such as Murray Leinster's "First Contact", which is a very clever take on the idea). I'd then I'd also try to hammer out about 40 episode one-liners to see if I could come up with story ideas without repeating myself. If I can't that means I haven't yet hit on a "story making engine" formula yet and have to think it over the ideas some more.

 

[Lance]

Wait so Simon Pegg is writing the script? Please tell me it's a bad joke.
I guess the rumor might as well be true because it seems that he well-connected to the new director..
really, help me being optimistic about Pegg making trek 3 too because I dunno..
The fact that he plays one of the characters is a problem because he's likely to give more screentime to Scotty at the expense of other characters. Come on.
I like Scotty as comic relief but not to the extent that it gets old and takes over every moment becoming redundant.

Eta: I voted WORRIED even before I read the last rumor..

Not necessarily. Nimoy was very even-handed when he got handed the keys to the franchise. Sure, Spock was a main character anyway, but nobody could accuse The Voyage Home of neglecting the secondary characters. It's maybe Star Trek's single best example of making good use of the ensemble cast.

Also Pegg was an on-the-record Star Trek fan before he ever got the Scotty gig, so chances are he's not gonna go all egotistical and say "Scotty is now the star in Star Trek". Pegg knows and understands what makes Star Trek work, one hopes he isn't gonna piss it up the wall for the sake of his own ego.

So the idea that an actor is going to gilt their own lilly at the expense of their co-stars isn't necessarily an accurate assumption to make. Sure it's happened with the likes of Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and Bill Shatner, but that doesn't mean Pegg is going to go down the same path. Of course, we will see...

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Hey Dennis, how would you make a Trek series?

You're knowledgeable in the workings of viewers and television creation.

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable.

I'd ask them to go after the rights to Forbidden Planet and let me do something with that instead. And then I'd ask Mike Okuda if he were willing to be the art director.

I thought you'd say "Polaris".

Me, I'd start by figuring out what the "bottom" of the show is: who it's about and why we should care. I'd also figure out what the themes of the show are and what kinds of characters and conflicts would best illustrate it. I'd then make a list of "don'ts", which I do for any project. I figure out what doesn't appeal to me and what's lazy and banish them: the transporter as we know it would be the first thing to go, as would human-alien hybrids, and virtual reality type holodeck things (which just encourage the writers to make episodes in genres which aren't the show... if you want to write a 60s spy show, write it for some other show). I'd also look into which good science fiction short stories and radio plays might make a suitable basis for episodes and buy the rights to those (such as Murray Leinster's "First Contact", which is a very clever take on the idea). I'd then I'd also try to hammer out about 40 episode one-liners to see if I could come up with story ideas without repeating myself. If I can't that means I haven't yet hit on a "story making engine" formula yet and have to think it over the ideas some more.

So what you want are stories like these:

 

[Malaika]

Wait so Simon Pegg is writing the script? Please tell me it's a bad joke.
I guess the rumor might as well be true because it seems that he well-connected to the new director..
really, help me being optimistic about Pegg making trek 3 too because I dunno..
The fact that he plays one of the characters is a problem because he's likely to give more screentime to Scotty at the expense of other characters. Come on.
I like Scotty as comic relief but not to the extent that it gets old and takes over every moment becoming redundant.

Eta: I voted WORRIED even before I read the last rumor..

Not necessarily. Nimoy was very even-handed when he got handed the keys to the franchise. Sure, Spock was a main character anyway, but nobody could accuse The Voyage Home of neglecting the secondary characters. It's maybe Star Trek's single best example of making good use of the ensemble cast.

Also Pegg was an on-the-record Star Trek fan before he ever got the Scotty gig, so chances are he's not gonna go all egotistical and say "Scotty is now the star in Star Trek". Pegg knows and understands what makes Star Trek work, one hopes he isn't gonna piss it up the wall for the sake of his own ego.

So the idea that an actor is going to gilt their own lilly at the expense of their co-stars isn't necessarily an accurate assumption to make. Sure it's happened with the likes of Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and Bill Shatner, but that doesn't mean Pegg is going to go down the same path. Of course, we will see...

I don't want to stereotype Pegg as the guy who adds comic relief, but I have to admit that my actual concern is, more than him making Scotty the star, that he might be able to write a fun story and fun interactions for the characters but I'm not sure he'd be able to add depth and character development too and in short give me the kind of scenes I liked in the previous movies.
I'm sorry for saying that and for not trusting him in that regard. It's just my impression from the things I read him saying and his work in general, that's all.

as for him being a star trek fan: that means nothing. Actually, it can be both a good and BAD thing because, ultimately, what the last movie truly needs, if being a fan is a requirement, is someone who is a fan of the reboot and understands and cares about the integrity of these characters and this trilogy.
We don't need people who might fall in the trap of self-serving nostalgia (especially with this being the 50th anniversary. See the rumor about Shatner..) either.


The reboot doesn't need a star trek fan. It just needs good writers and a good director. The best star trek movie according to many fans was the one written and directed by someone who wasn't a star trek fan when he made that movie.
The first reboot movie, that was praised by critics and was liked by both non star trek fans and long time star trek fans, also was directed by a non star trek fan.

 

[Mudd]

Hey Dennis, how would you make a Trek series?

You're knowledgeable in the workings of viewers and television creation.

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable.

I'd ask them to go after the rights to Forbidden Planet and let me do something with that instead. And then I'd ask Mike Okuda if he were willing to be the art director.

I thought you'd say "Polaris".

Well I would have, but then I'd have to explain. Plus, what new producer gets hired on these days to turn previously unknown/unpublished IP into a franchise?

Your ideas are, of course, generally well-taken. I wonder, though, how many episodic TV shows at any level of quality right now could come up with 40 one-line story descriptions that were distinct? I suspect that's one reason that TV drama now relies so heavily upon serialization.

 

[Cake]

Why is everyone thinking here, that Pegg is involved in writing the script? Where is that coming from? Source, please.

 

[Mudd]

The brother of Doug Jung, the co-writer, said something to that effect.

 

[Lance]

Wait so Simon Pegg is writing the script? Please tell me it's a bad joke.
I guess the rumor might as well be true because it seems that he well-connected to the new director..
really, help me being optimistic about Pegg making trek 3 too because I dunno..
The fact that he plays one of the characters is a problem because he's likely to give more screentime to Scotty at the expense of other characters. Come on.
I like Scotty as comic relief but not to the extent that it gets old and takes over every moment becoming redundant.

Eta: I voted WORRIED even before I read the last rumor..

Not necessarily. Nimoy was very even-handed when he got handed the keys to the franchise. Sure, Spock was a main character anyway, but nobody could accuse The Voyage Home of neglecting the secondary characters. It's maybe Star Trek's single best example of making good use of the ensemble cast.

Also Pegg was an on-the-record Star Trek fan before he ever got the Scotty gig, so chances are he's not gonna go all egotistical and say "Scotty is now the star in Star Trek". Pegg knows and understands what makes Star Trek work, one hopes he isn't gonna piss it up the wall for the sake of his own ego.

So the idea that an actor is going to gilt their own lilly at the expense of their co-stars isn't necessarily an accurate assumption to make. Sure it's happened with the likes of Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and Bill Shatner, but that doesn't mean Pegg is going to go down the same path. Of course, we will see...

I don't want to stereotype Pegg as the guy who adds comic relief, but I have to admit that my actual concern is, more than him making Scotty the star, that he might be able to write a fun story and fun interactions for the characters but I'm not sure he'd be able to add depth and character development too and in short give me the kind of scenes I liked in the previous movies.
I'm sorry for saying that and for not trusting him in that regard. It's just my impression from the things I read him saying and his work in general, that's all.

as for him being a star trek fan: that means nothing. Actually, it can be both a good and BAD thing because, ultimately, what the last movie truly needs, if being a fan is a requirement, is someone who is a fan of the reboot and understands and cares about the integrity of these characters and this trilogy.
We don't need people who might fall in the trap of self-serving nostalgia (especially with this being the 50th anniversary. See the rumor about Shatner..) either.


The reboot doesn't need a star trek fan. It just needs good writers and a good director. The best star trek movie according to many fans was the one written and directed by someone who wasn't a star trek fan when he made that movie.
The first reboot movie, that was praised by critics and was liked by both non star trek fans and long time star trek fans, also was directed by a non star trek fan.

On some level I can understand your concerns, especially as Pegg is a comedic writer by trade. I don't doubt he'd write some great zingers, but yeah. Can he really "do" drama?

*If* it's true that he's co-writing this (and we only have a twitter feed as a source for that at the moment), then my assumption is there's something about the previous drafts the 'new guy' Justin Lin doesn't like, and as Pegg is an established writer of several successful motion pictures, as well as being a Star Trek fan, actor in the franchise, and a buddy of both JJ Abrams himself and of Justin Lin, then there's certainly some logic why they might have approached him. I hope it's more than simply nepotism... which is (on the record) how Pegg got the Scotty gig in the first place.

 

[ralph]

Why is everyone thinking here, that Pegg is involved in writing the script? Where is that coming from? Source, please.

on twitter: @Mike_Jung jan 19

"Hey Rob! It's not in the trade publications yet, but yup, it's a done deal, Doug's co-writing with Simon Pegg".


and here: mikejung.tumblr

 

[Campe]

The brother of Doug Jung, the co-writer, said something to that effect.

On a Twitter feed no less? I put about as much stock as some unknown fanfic writer posting on Facebook they know about two new Trek series because they've "seen some art."

But, if it is true, I'd love to see what Pegg can do with writing Trek. Color me cautiously optimistic.

 

[Lance]

It reminds me of that scene in Monty Python's Life Of Brian:

WRITER 1: "I'm writing the new Star Trek!"
WRITER 2: "No, it's me!! I'm writing the new Star Trek!!!"
WRITER 3: "I'm writing the new Star Trek, and so is Simon Pegg."

 

[fireproof78]

Simon Pegg has a variety of experience in the film and TV world, and he isn't the lead writer. I see no reason why both Pegg and Lin can't branch out and draw upon their vast experience to inform the film's direction.

I am still optimistic.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable.

I'd ask them to go after the rights to Forbidden Planet and let me do something with that instead. And then I'd ask Mike Okuda if he were willing to be the art director.

I thought you'd say "Polaris".

Me, I'd start by figuring out what the "bottom" of the show is: who it's about and why we should care. I'd also figure out what the themes of the show are and what kinds of characters and conflicts would best illustrate it. I'd then make a list of "don'ts", which I do for any project. I figure out what doesn't appeal to me and what's lazy and banish them: the transporter as we know it would be the first thing to go, as would human-alien hybrids, and virtual reality type holodeck things (which just encourage the writers to make episodes in genres which aren't the show... if you want to write a 60s spy show, write it for some other show). I'd also look into which good science fiction short stories and radio plays might make a suitable basis for episodes and buy the rights to those (such as Murray Leinster's "First Contact", which is a very clever take on the idea). I'd then I'd also try to hammer out about 40 episode one-liners to see if I could come up with story ideas without repeating myself. If I can't that means I haven't yet hit on a "story making engine" formula yet and have to think it over the ideas some more.

So what you want are stories like these:

[snip]

Certain Star Trek episodes were made that way, including:

• TOS "Arena" (Brown got story-by credit, though Coon could have been a victim of cryptomnesia that he had read or heard of Brown's story when he wrote the episode, or Coon really did independently come up with the same idea)
• TOS "Balance of Terror" (no story-by credit to Mayes or Rayner, but an alleged confession to Harlan Ellison by Schneider, and it clearly parallels the WWII story "The Enemy Below" almost beat for beat)
• TAS "The Slaver Weapon" (adaptation by the author Larry Niven)
• TNG "Tin Man" (adaptation by the authors Dennis Russell Bailey and David Bischoff, with Lisa Putman White)

And these were all generally well-received episodes.

 

[BillJ]

• TOS "Arena" (Brown got story-by credit, though Coon could have been a victim of cryptomnesia that he had read or heard of Brown's story when he wrote the episode, or Coon really did independently come up with the same idea)
  

I think Coon admitted he had read the Brown story.

 

[doubleohfive]

Inside Star Trek (the Solow-Justman book) advocates, if I remember correctly, that Coon did read the story and had completely fortotten that he had. The book describes the writing of "Arena" as troubled, and Coon volunteered to take it on over the weekend and was able to crank it out in impressive time by Monday, but later realized his error.

 

[doubleohfive]

Here's the passage from Inside Star Trek by Herb Solow and Robert H. Justman, pp. 206:

Inside Star Trek wrote:

"Andee wasn't Gene's only surprise. Oddly enough, "Arena," Coon's first script for Star Trek, almost never happened.

HERB: Plain and simple, we were running out of scripts. Several writers hadn't delivered as promised, and suddenly, there were only two choices of action available to us: either shut down the shooting company or somehow find another script. Gene Roddenberry was away and Gene Coon was busy rewiriting other writers' scripts, but none of those would be ready in time. So Coon decided to take some direct action. He asked Bob if he could leave the studio a little earler that Friday afternoon to go home, lock himself in a room, and not emerge until Monday morning with a new script. RJ was thrilled. "If you can do that, go home early every weekend."

So just before 6:00 Friday, Coon drove his Toyotal Land Cruiser off the lot and did not return until midmorning Monday--with a new script in hand. Now, I was thrilled. The script was quickly put into mimeo and copies were rushed to NBC for network approval and Kellam DeForest's office for actual research and legal approvals.

But suddenly, the thrill was gone. Coon, an ardent reader of science fiction since he was a child, in his haste to create a story, had inadvertently based part of his script on a short story that had been written by Frederic Brown. Kellam's assistant Joan Pearce, who reveiewed, analyzed, and wrote the research reports on all Star Trek scripts, recgonized the story. She remembers that when she advised Coon of the problem, his reaction was a horrified "Oh my God!" Joan has absolutely no doubt he was unaware he had "lifted" the material. But Coon had transgressed, and there was no way we could shoot the script without buying a plagiarism suit.

Gene Coon and I met with Bernie Weitzman and Ed Perlstein and formulated a plan. Business Affairs would call Brown, tell him Star Trek would like to buy his story, and offer a fair price. Brown was thrilled to have one of his stories on Star Trek and accepted the deal. We never did tell him that the script had already been written."

 

[MakeshiftPython]

There aren't a lot of EONs, Marvels and LucasFilms out there because Hollywood doesn't actually like groups like that because they can't control them. Those three examples have/had a very strong hold on the material, making them relatively independent from studios.

Sure sounds that way:

Star Wars creator George Lucas has admitted his ideas for a new trilogy of films were ignored by studio Disney after he sold all rights to the long-running space opera saga in October 2012.

The film-maker told USA Today last week that he planned to shoot the seventh movie in the long-running space opera saga - since retooled by JJ Abrams as Star Wars: The Force Awakens - and release it in May this year.

He also provided treatments for three new films. But in a new interview with Cinema Blend Lucas revealed that none of his ideas made the final screenplay for Abrams’ debut turn in the director’s chair.

“The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn’t really want to do those,” said Lucas. “So they made up their own. So it’s not the ones that I originally wrote [on screen in Star Wars: The Force Awakens].”

Notice he doesn't say 'Lucasfilms' he says Disney and I'm pretty sure of all the people on the planet, he knows the difference.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jan/21/star-wars-george-lucas-films-disney

That's why I said "have/had", as LucasFilm was a very independent company that did the movies their way without having any of the studios have a final say. That's changed now, obviously. LucasFilm will remain the production company that makes the Star Wars films however they like, but now it's Disney that has the final say. Marvel is pretty much on the same boat. For example, they were originally going to have Tony Stark actually face his alcoholism as done in the comics, but Disney vetoed that and it was changed to PTSD, cause I guess having the hero overcome alcoholism is too inspirational for kids.

 

[BillJ]

Thanks for doing the research, doubleohfive.

I knew I had remembered something about it but couldn't remember the exact details.

Here's the passage from Inside Star Trek by Herb Solow and Robert H. Justman, pp. 206:

Inside Star Trek wrote:

"Andee wasn't Gene's only surprise. Oddly enough, "Arena," Coon's first script for Star Trek, almost never happened.

HERB: Plain and simple, we were running out of scripts. Several writers hadn't delivered as promised, and suddenly, there were only two choices of action available to us: either shut down the shooting company or somehow find another script. Gene Roddenberry was away and Gene Coon was busy rewiriting other writers' scripts, but none of those would be ready in time. So Coon decided to take some direct action. He asked Bob if he could leave the studio a little earler that Friday afternoon to go home, lock himself in a room, and not emerge until Monday morning with a new script. RJ was thrilled. "If you can do that, go home early every weekend."

So just before 6:00 Friday, Coon drove his Toyotal Land Cruiser off the lot and did not return until midmorning Monday--with a new script in hand. Now, I was thrilled. The script was quickly put into mimeo and copies were rushed to NBC for network approval and Kellam DeForest's office for actual research and legal approvals.

But suddenly, the thrill was gone. Coon, an ardent reader of science fiction since he was a child, in his haste to create a story, had inadvertently based part of his script on a short story that had been written by Frederic Brown. Kellam's assistant Joan Pearce, who reveiewed, analyzed, and wrote the research reports on all Star Trek scripts, recgonized the story. She remembers that when she advised Coon of the problem, his reaction was a horrified "Oh my God!" Joan has absolutely no doubt he was unaware he had "lifted" the material. But Coon had transgressed, and there was no way we could shoot the script without buying a plagiarism suit.

Gene Coon and I met with Bernie Weitzman and Ed Perlstein and formulated a plan. Business Affairs would call Brown, tell him Star Trek would like to buy his story, and offer a fair price. Brown was thrilled to have one of his stories on Star Trek and accepted the deal. We never did tell him that the script had already been written."