I'm glad we got Kira instead of Ro, because Kira is one of my favourite Star Trek characters, but I'd gladly trade Torres for Ro.
Star Trek's Sexist Legacy
- Thread starter Danja
- Start date
New Trek Con panel, including Nana commenting the change to high heels.
Replace BeLanna with Sonya Gomez.
Never really thought of it at the time cause I was young and didn't notice these things but both shows had a pretty seamless mixed cast. The representation wasnt always perfect but it certainly wasn't the usual all American white cast
On DS9 it helped that the white guys mostly played heavily made-up aliens. O'Brien was literally the only white male human out of the regular cast.
And he wasnt American or an American actor playing another nationality
^ Though how many Americans claim to have Irish ancestry (especially around St Patrick's Day)? 
Everyone.^ Though how many Americans claim to have Irish ancestry (especially around St Patrick's Day)?
Irish Americans are the least Irish people I ever met^ Though how many Americans claim to have Irish ancestry (especially around St Patrick's Day)?
^ Though how many Americans claim to have Irish ancestry (especially around St Patrick's Day)?
True story on that theme...
My dad went to New York on holiday. Went in ‘irish’ bar. My dad is *very* London. Was given all the side eye and nasty by the barman. Asked why. Barman says ‘because I’m Irish’. Dad says ‘really?’ Barman says ‘yeah, on my great grandads side’. Dad says ‘my grandad was Irish, that makes me more Irish than you you(insert applicable insult here, I never remember what he chose)’ Barman goes off in a strop, othe Irish Americans in bar buy him (My dad) a drink.
That may not say a lot about Irish Americans, but it says a lot about that barman.
Based on which stereotypes? Also, Irish people? Like me?
(And what's the percentage cutoff point anyway, what percentage makes representation moot, trivial, nonexistent, BS, and so on? Based on those key words, that number surely cannot be >= 0.00000000000000000000000000001%?) Mine's about 60%, I'd have to look it up for a precise number... And stereotypes from how far back are people counting - 20 years ago, 200, 2000, 20000...?
Americans don't realize what a large proportion of British people are of Irish descent. But the anti-British viewpoint among "Irish Americans" is very widespread in the U.S. I'm a quarter Irish (not recent, from both sides of the family, with everyone coming over around the Great Famine) and vividly remember going to Irish fairs with my (3/4 Irish) grandfather, where tons of pro-IRA T-shirts and bumper stickers were for sale.
I nearly got in some trouble once because of even talking about it. I was talking about how 9/11 was going to seriously change things in New York, because of all the IRA funding that went down at St.Patricks day and the like. I was over head by an Irishman who growled ‘they should have put a bit more moe y in then shouldn’t they’ but luckily no altercation ensued. This is in London mind you.
It’s quick how things get out of hand...but then I watched The Drumhead today, so it just resonates a bit.
Which, swinging us back on topic, was an interesting watch when thinking about things like ‘Treks Sexist Legacy’ because (a) it makes good points about freedom of thought and the dangers of polarising debate leading to witch-hunt, but also (b) is of course up to its ears in on screen sex and race representation. Especially when we look at background performers...most of Worfs security team for example.
Isn't it well earned? The brutal suppression of the Irish civil rights movement in the 1960s and 1970s is still very much in people's memory.
It's been over 800 years of English/British interference in Ireland.
The anecdotes here should have pointed out that in the case of Ireland, there is a difference between ‘government’ and ‘people’ that gives much more nuance than that. I have Irish great grandparents on both sides as far as I know. I still wasn’t too happy when Bombs went off down the road from my school, or the bomb threat in my school, or evacuating the shop I worked in. I had mates from EIRE and NI. The landlord of my local (where I later worked for a bit) was Protestant NI, his wife, the landlady, Catholic EIRE. To say the whole thing on a very basic level isn’t clear cut would be an understatement. Hell, by the standards of the situation, I get to be called ‘in a mixed marriage’ and have some newspapers refer to my kid as a ‘mongrel’ (I am basically Protestant as it stands, my wife Catholic...neither of us is Irish mind you) There are deep divisions, but also great bridges across them, and trying to turn it into a simple ‘goodies’ and ‘baddies’ will basically never work.
John Major and Tony Blair did a lot to help fix things, and for a while, it looked promising. But hey, Brexit. Sigh.
From what I know, NI and Ireland are co-operating with the pandemic and my understanding is that there is a sizeable proportion in the NI Protestant who while may not think themselves politically as Irish, don't mind the economic benefits of Ireland and being part of the EU.
I wonder if NI and Ireland becomes more closer both economically and politically in the near future if the Loyalist nutters will get the boat over here to my neck of woods?
There are things that can be stated quite definitively. Catholic protesters marched to gain parity in Northern Ireland public life, a move that partially signaled the will to move away from republicanism and accept life in the kingdom. The actions of the RUC, radicalized by the like of Ian Paisley, exacerbated a situation that needed not be violent. The escalation caused by the RUC gave the IRA a new entrypoint into Northern Ireland politics.
One of the most eye-opening things for me when I lived in England was that a lot of people just saw themselves as bystanders - some sort of third party in the whole Northern Ireland conflict. Even those people who were religious generally didn't see being part of the Church of England as being Protestant per se, but something else entirely.
We very much are...except when there were terror threats. It’s...complex. The C of E for a start welcomes anyone in, catholic’s can take communion should they choose etc. That divide is something that is stark in Ireland in ways it isn’t elsewhere in the world (and bits of scotland) and much of that bloody past (be it Mary or Elizabeth) is something for the past. It’s looooong. But suffice it to say it’s to do with ruling classes going back to the blooming conquest.
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