Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Thomas Eugene, Feb 10, 2016.
That was a really good read!
EYE OF THE NEEDLE
Thanks, Refuge! I’m glad you enjoyed it.
I do have to make a couple of corrections though, which I do below…
@Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME,
I only recently heard that there were rumors about Mulgrew/Beltran. I went back and checked what I thought was a source for that report, but realized it is nothing substantial afterall. You may be right about the gossip… :-)
We’ll just have to respectfully disagree about there being a time when it was too late to show a romance between Janeway & Chakotay. Perhaps I do disagree w/ Mulgrew herself. I don’t think we ever saw Janeway politely reject any advances. I don’t think we ever saw any actual advances! That was one of my problems with the show, that there is only the one time where they showed us the J&C characters talking candidly about their personal relationship (Resolutions), and then we only got Chakotay’s side. They never showed us Janeway’s thoughts on the subject back on the ship either. We can only find out about Janeway’s POV in interviews--? Really--? Lazy writing IMO…
I imagine that in the beginning, Janeway still considered herself engaged, and then she learned that Mark was married and would have to heal from that. She was obsessed with getting home and sticking to protocols. And then there were the tensions from the various adventures. They both had their own other flings. But I’m not sure why you say Janeway showed a total indifference to Chakotay in the later seasons? I don’t think their many candlelight dinners showed “total indifference”, for one thing. There are other indications of their close friendship, but that’s a biggie.
It’s true that the producers of the “X-Files” deliberately waited until their last season before Mulder and Scully got together romantically, but it grew out of an ongoing, deep, and affectionate friendship. So it has been done before on TV. And my sister was friends with a man for 14 years (they dated and saw others off and on) before they finally reconnected and married, and have been together for many years now. I’m not trying to convince you they should have done that with J/C on Voyager, just that it’s been done on TV and IRL and so could have been done, if well-written.
Regarding the J/C kissing scene or scenes, there were times when such a scene was written or proposed in an early draft of a script. I’ve seen photos of the pages from the “angry warrior” scene from “Resolutions” where the dialogue is slightly different and then ends with a kiss. I don’t know whether that kiss was actually shot. It’s also said that the later scene in “Hunters” where Janeway is talking with Chakotay about her “Dear John” (or Dear Janeway--) letter from Mark was originally written differently and led to a kiss.
Lastly, Voyager’s writer Bryan Fuller says this about J/C in general and “Workforce”:
“I would have liked to have seen some sort of acknowledgement of the relationship between Janeway and Chakotay, and I thought ‘Workforce’ would have been a great place to do that; instead of the Jaffen character, what if it were Chakotay, brainwashed, that Janeway was having the romance with? That would have been a place for us to explore that relationship, and especially the repercussions of how it would have impacted their relationship back on the ship.”
— Bryan Fuller, Star Trek: The Magazine (June 2001)
I like how this guy thinks. I’m not sure if his idea was in an actual early draft of the script, or was just a pitched idea. In any case, as it was aired, when brainwashed Janeway sees that she and Chakotay are the same species, his husky response, “We’re more than that, we’re friends” is the hottest declaration of friendship I’ve ever heard!
As you say, if a kiss was filmed, there should be a deleted scene, although not all cuts are saved. Someone said the scene used to be on Youtube, but she couldn’t find it anymore, so I don’t know what that was. Browsing through some other fan sites, I came across a very short clip that was claimed to be the lost kiss. Unfortunately, when I scrutinized it better and did some checking, I realized someone had superimposed Janeway into the kissing scene from “In the Flesh”! So nevermind on that point as well! :-(
I’m not really sure what you are trying to say about Seven & Chakotay, or your expectations in Endgame Pt2. You think they should be flirting or exchanging loving looks at the very end--? They were in the middle of a battle... And they had been on only 3 dates. Some relationships are not as intense as others… <shrugs>
I know we don’t have the same taste or agree about this element of the show, but I enjoy discussing with you. You make me dig and think more deeply. I’m always interested in your comments. I can tell you are knowledgeable and appreciate Voyager’s storytelling. (and we do both agree about the Doctor!)
Thanks, Refuge. If you use these pictures, which are compilations of different screenshots, as actual wallpapers, they look really spectacular - esp. if your PC has a big screen.
And since the J/C topic is being discussed at length here these days, here's my fav Captain and her XO for today:
They look together.
Interesting how those two phasers are different. Not that I'm an expert on phasers.
I think I recall an interview once with Michael Dorn. He and the interviewer where saying phasers looked like electric razors to them.
Another nice desktop, TE! And I think I need to stay out of this thread at least until I finish s3...
Thomas Eugene, I'll be on topic for a change. Nice Wallpaper!!
Chakotay on top--?
Refuge, I think Chakotay is just holding his phaser farther up. But I can't account for the difference in color.
Thanks, Refuge. If you hadn't pointed it out, I would never have noticed the different phasers.
Now that you've mentioned it, it would be good to find out what we are supposed to know about phasers. Which is interesting because it was this morning when I was contemplating buying this book:
Maybe that one has the answer.
BTW, I know very little about anything Trek that's technical. Ships for example. They always keep saying it's a Galaxy-class ship or an Intrepid one ... but what does that mean? No idea. Shows, though, that I love VOY for the characters, not for some kind of technical mumbo jumbo.
Thanks, CM (it's always a pleasure to talk to a mouse, esp. to a cosmic one )
Do you think that the wallpapers are too telling of what's going to happen in the forthcoming eps? Perhaps it is so ... so maybe you should stay away for a while. Albeit, apart from a few quotes, my pics don't give that much away ... I think.
As for the topic, I did say at the beginning of this thread (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away ... oops, wrong show ) that I'd really like people to talk about anything VOY or Trek (or even science fiction) that my wallpapers trigger off in their minds. So you are absolutely on topic ... and I'm glad to see that the Janeway-Chakotay topic can be discussed in a civilized manner (in contrast to some earlier threads ...).
And Chakotay is on top because he is protecting his sweetheart ... with that long arm of his ...
But Janeway is in the foreground ... so she's still on top, xD
The raw material for the above wallpaper came from publicity pictures, not from actual episodes. The actors were standing in front of the (more or less) same background but they were lit from different angles and the pictures themselves must have been taken from various distances as well ... hence the difference in colour.
No, I actually don't think the desktops give spoilers... I was going to avoid this thread because of the convo that developed around your desktops that also involved discussion of the eps, not because of the desktops themselves.
Thomas Eugene, thanks for clarifying. I don't feel so bad now about rambling on. Yes, civility first!
I do love how you describe the image choices and meaning. Awww, so sweet. And I see now, she is on top. I always imagined she would want to be... uh, nevermind.
Cosmic Mouse, you said it! LOL! I got to get me some emojis...
That drooling smiley says it all... there's another board I post on that actually has pornographic smileys, although I prefer using my imagination (and thankfully you guys will be spared the graphic details that way!).
It's nice to see that there's quite a lot of activity on my thread these days. So thanks to everyone who have been actively participating.
Oh, okay, that's good to know. Mind you, anything might come up on other threads as well ... you should tread carefully if you don't want your fun to be spoilt.
Although, to be honest, spoilers have never disturbed me. I mean ... if I like something, I will watch it again and again and again ... So the first watching has already "spoilt" the next ones after that. And if it's something I don't like, I don't mind it anyway.
But I'm aware that most people don't want their fun to be spoilt so I can understand you perfectly.
I wonder what the three dots stand for ...
Anyway, I'm glad that I've managed to put your mind at rest ... so please feel free to discuss various aspects of VOY/Trek/sci-fi on this thread.
Erm ... I can't imagine what they look like ... Any chance of seeing some of those in the recent EMOJI movie?
And for today ... here's Tommyboy and Seven from NIGHT:
That's cool !
Yeah, true that, on the spoilers... I've had films ruined for me before in the past, and I have seen some of the later eps in Voyager (maybe 8-10 or so), so I could get used to some spoilers. If I had to make a choice I'd rather spoil some eps as a trade off for talking to you guys.
...and on those emojis: hmmmm.... some of them are pretty funny. If I can figure out the messaging system here I can send a couple your way. They're for NC-rated boards only.
Also, your Night desktop is beautiful! I like minimalist-looking designs as far as desktops go, and having 2 beautiful people featured doesn't hurt.
Thanks, guys. Yeah, this one was easy to make although I really loved the idea when it was conceived in my mind.
And yes, having two good-looking people helps a lot ... esp. the one on the left ...
This has been one of the most beautiful comments I've seen on any of these fora. I'm moved ... really ...
What does NC mean?
If you move your mouse above your name, choose the "Conversations" option ... and then you can message me in private.
Separate names with a comma.