It's really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Once the Doctor had a taste of freedom there was no going back.Ah, Tom and his expressions... Hilarious!
And I keep thinking that Janeway made a great mistake & a hell of violation of Prime Directive in letting The Doctor keep the holo ermitter after the Sterling episode, instead of asking to Torres & Kim to create something similar, maybe not as powerful as Sterling's holo ermitter but very close!
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- Thread starter Thomas Eugene
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As the higher commanding officier aboard Voyager, Captain Kathryn Janeway perfectly knew the ins and outs of Starfleet's protocol & policy where the respect of the Prime Directive was its driving force so, it was her responsability to remind The Doctor that in keeping using the holo-ermitter after Sterling's debacle, they knowingly violated Starfleet's first rule of its policy & could be held accountable once the news would be known ...and informed him that she had to confiscate the 24th Century's device (I bet she didn't even inform Starfleet HQ when the contact was made in S4 because if she had done, she would have been forced to confiscate immediately, regardless the Quadrant where Voyager was!
), no matter The Doctor agreed or not. In fact here, she played ease in pretending to ignore where the holo ermitter came from and agreeing to let The Doctor using it for the so-called good of the service (for the same reason, she could justify his sentiency) while in fact, it was for their "ease" and for The Doctor, his pleasure, which from my point of view, was much worse than all her other violations, which I remind you, were made in the moment with the sole purpose of saving Voyager, her crew and sometimes, other populations from a total
annihilation. Not that these last violations were less serious but at least, they were justifiable or alternatively, understandable* par admirals, who once were Captains.
(Still in my mind, the only violation committed by Janeway which was not justifiable and difficult to understand by people from outside (=Admirals) was the one commited in Endgame, where she agreed with her older doppelhänger, Admiral Janeway, to use again a device from the 24th century to go home, even if her decision was explained by her loyalty & emotional attachment to some members of her senior officiers.
I'm not sure if they all would've got home if the Doctor had not use the emitter in various episodes.As the higher commanding officier aboard Voyager, Captain Kathryn Janeway perfectly knew the ins and outs of Starfleet's protocol & policy where the respect of the Prime Directive was its driving force so, it was her responsability to remind The Doctor that in keeping using the holo-ermitter after Sterling's debacle, they knowingly violated Starfleet's first rule of its policy & could be held accountable once the news would be known ...and informed him that she had to confiscate the 24th Century's device (I bet she didn't even inform Starfleet HQ when the contact was made in S4 because if she had done, she would have been forced to confiscate immediately, regardless the Quadrant where Voyager was!
In fact here, she played ease in pretending to ignore where the holo ermitter came from and agreeing to let The Doctor using it for the so-called good of the service (for the same reason, she could justify his sentiency) while in fact, it was for their "ease" and for The Doctor, his pleasure, which from my point of view, was much worse than all her other violations, which I remind you, were made in the moment with the sole purpose of saving Voyager, her crew and sometimes, other populations from a total
annihilation. Not that these last violations were less serious but at least, they were justifiable or alternatively, understandable* par admirals, who once were Captains.
(Still in my mind, the only violation committed by Janeway which was not justifiable and difficult to understand by people from outside (=Admirals) was the one commited in Endgame, where she agreed with her older doppelhänger, Admiral Janeway, to use again a device from the 24th century to go home, even if her decision was explained by her loyalty & emotional attachment to some members of her senior officiers.
End justifies the means
I'm not sure if they all would've got home if the Doctor had not use the emitter in various episodes.
End justifies the means
But wasn't her who used to say that the end wouldn't justify the means (used), when she lectured her own senior crew and Krashyk or Ransom?!
And I guess that you refer specifically to "A Message in the Bottle" when you write that The Doctor helped Voyager to go home, right?! I'd rather say that it was Seven's chance of hitting on an abandoned subspace relay network that has the ability to send The Doctor to a Starfleet ship detected in the Alpha Quadrant, that allowed Starfleet HQ Voyager to know that Voyager was lost in one sector of the DQ and the crew was safe and sound. But what or rather who really allowed Voyager - and her crew - to go home after 7 years* spent in DQ, was Admiral Janeway who brought the device from her future and forced her younger döppelhanger to use it.
As for The Doctor, his holo ermitter only allowed him to move inside and outside Voyager and to intervene more quickly, what allowed to save more lives and to bring his help in varied mission. In short, to act as a human doctor & competent senior officer. Don't get me wrong, I don't try to underestimate the role of The Doctor but he wasn't a Superhologram!
* Voyager would have went home without Adm.Janeway's intervention but after 70 years and with a very reduced and old crew.
BARGE OF THE DEAD
Good catchBut wasn't her who used to say that the end wouldn't justify the means (used), when she lectured her own senior crew and Krashyk or Ransom?!
Voyager trimmed off several of those seventy years along the way. At any given time without one of those their path and future would have been different. Tuvok would have gone mad that was most likely but a longer travel time at different junctures may have meant Seven and some others survived - or not.
The Doctor wasn't a super character, true, but he did rather save the day a lot and I can see how that is like having a 'get out of jail free' card. He would have most likely continued to be that if it had been a journey closer to seventy years.
BARGE OF THE DEAD
I'm not a fan of this episode but what a good collage!
NB: After to have watched Barge of the Dead & Blood Fever, I wonder how B'Elena could supposed being Torres could ended as a Federation Liaison to the Klingon Empire. I mean she was always uncomfortable with her Klingon legacy, even after marrying Tom and being pregnant of Miral(didn't she try to delete the Klingo part)?!
I'm not a fan of this episode but what a good collage!
NB: After to have watched Barge of the Dead & Blood Fever, I wonder how B'Elena could supposed being Torres could ended as a Federation Liaison to the Klingon Empire. I mean she was always uncomfortable with her Klingon legacy, even after marrying Tom and being pregnant of Miral(didn't she try to delete the Klingo part)?!
Yes, in Lineage. I love it how Tom kept her from implementing her plans.
Also one of my least favorite episodes but the wallpaper is lovely.
Thanks, everyone, again.
Those of you who don't like BARGE OF THE DEAD: why is that?
I personally love it … but it's probably because my relationship with my mother is difficult too …
I guess yours with your mother is less fraught …
Those of you who don't like BARGE OF THE DEAD: why is that?
I personally love it … but it's probably because my relationship with my mother is difficult too …
I guess yours with your mother is less fraught …
And for today we have Janeway and Chakotay from FUTURE'S END:
Thanks, everyone, again.
Those of you who don't like BARGE OF THE DEAD: why is that?
I personally love it … but it's probably because my relationship with my mother is difficult too …
I guess yours with your mother is less fraught …
No, it is special. That's why I think that Barge of the Dead is one of the better episode. My mother is strong and dominant.
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Nice!And for today we have Janeway and Chakotay from FUTURE'S END:
(that's for Chak and Janeway separately... not JC).
Thanks, everyone, again.
Those of you who don't like BARGE OF THE DEAD: why is that?
I personally love it … but it's probably because my relationship with my mother is difficult too …
I guess yours with your mother is less fraught …
Actually it has nothing to do with my mother. I felt the premise was fatally flawed. It supports the notion that no matter how much you desire to shed your past and make a new road for yourself, you are doomed by the decisions of others. I totally disagree with that philosophy. If my son turns into a creep (which he is not by the way), why should that doom me and, on the flip side, why should my son be made to pay for my mistakes. As a social worker I fundamentally disagree with this idea. The kids I work with should not pay because their parents are lost nor, on the flip side, should the parents feel they should be punished because their kid strayed. This is why I disliked the episode. When B'elanna ultimately bows to the pressure and obediently returns to the fold I shook my head and have not watched it again.
Why do you think the episode "supports the notion"?
To me the episode shows that there are or rather that there might be cultures in which this is how it works. In my interpretation the episode does not support it, only illustrates a possible scenario.
Also, do you think B'Elanna "ultimately bows to the pressure and obediently returns to the fold"? I think Season 7 episodes LINEAGE and especially PROPHECY prove that she does not.
Anyway … it is interesting to see how differently people interpret the same thing. I guess that's because our life experiences are different. And it is all the more exciting because in real life I am the rogue - my whole family is super religious and I am not; you can probably imagine all the conflicts that arise from this. Still, I like this episode because I don't think B'Elanna changes under the circumstances - I think she only makes an exception this time to please her mother. Her mother that she has perhaps understood to appreciate more than earlier, in no small part due to the circumstances in which Voyager finds itself. Remember EXTREME RISK? She clearly states she feels she's lost all the family she's ever had. Perhaps she appreciates more now that she has a family at all. Any family really. And although she does not go back to toeing the line, on this one occasion she does so. Just once in her life to please her mother. To "save" her mother. To me the episode presents an important stage in her struggle with her past, her mother, her family - and ultimately with herself. When she says at the end that she doesn't want to fight any more and you can see on the faces of the crew how much sorry they are for B'Elanna's predicament (I think their facial expressions speak volumes, Janeway's, Tom's, Chakotay's and Tuvok's spring to mind right now), you feel sorry for her too and realize what she has to go through. Perhaps doing once, just doing only once what would be good for your mother - or what you believe or what she believes would be good for her - is an important part of the plight B'Elanna has to go through.
NEELIX
NEELIX
It was nice to see Neelix' progression from annoying clown to loyal and competent counselor for Janeway. I wish Harry Kim had a bit more of a development, too. Simple explanation was 'someone has to be Ensign'. On the other hand Janeway had the privilege to issue field promotions. But that's another topic. I think Neelix is happy with Dexa now!
Seven of Nine
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when Seven of Nine looks after Voyager...
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when Seven of Nine looks after Voyager...
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