Star Trek V TFF every time I see it..
- Thread starter Dar70
- Start date
They didn't have time. The Writers' Guild of America was on strike from February 1988 until August 1988. Paramount had already booked Star Trek V in theaters for June 1989. Loughery literally had a month to write the script, because they needed to begin filming in early October in order to make the theatrical date.
Here's the thing about the SFX. They never would have looked great. They looked elsewhere when they were told ILM was overbooked and Star Trek wouldn't even have their "B" or "C" teams. Look at the effects ILM delivered for Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. They weren't even on par with Temple of Doom. The Zeppelin shots were composted poorly, the scenes of Indy and Henry in the bi-plane were laughably bad, and the screaming Nazi doll in the falling tank (which came apart on impact) was worse than the Dick Jones "monkey arms" doll at the end of RoboCop.
Ghostbusters II was worse.
ILM's real talent was toiling on the Back to the Future films and The Abyss. And there was no way Paramount was gonna spend what those films were paying for effects.
Star Trek had to look elsewhere. I wish they looked at DreamQuest, but even some of their work on Total Recall wasn't that convincing (the Mars train stands out). Nobody I guess thought of Derek Meddings or John Dykstra, or maybe they were simply too expensive. There was something about Bran Ferren's approach that they liked, but I think his greatest mistake was that he didn't seem to want to physically move the models. He seemed more like he was dragging stationary shots across the screen, like the Filmation cartoon did. The worst was the "Warp Speed NOW" escape.
To give them some credit, there were a few shots that worked well. The Enterprise against the moon was lovely. The shuttle crash was well realized. 'god" shooting past the Enterprise was beautiful. The BoP flying directly into the camera was the money shot. Even my jaded friend who hated every moment of the film to that point exclaimed "whoa sick!"
In the end, the film wasn't that kinda movie. Even if they replaced every effect, it would only make us say "well at least the effects look good." The movie was still a character based film, an actor's film, more about friendship than spectacle. So if you like the movie, the effects don't do it any harm. If you don't like the movie, betters visuals won't change your mind. Any problems this film has are all in the script.
Look, all I can say is, when I saw this trailer waiting to see Indy Jones 3, I was all sorts of stoked:
I still love this stupid movie.
Ghostbusters II was worse.
ILM's real talent was toiling on the Back to the Future films and The Abyss. And there was no way Paramount was gonna spend what those films were paying for effects.
Star Trek had to look elsewhere. I wish they looked at DreamQuest, but even some of their work on Total Recall wasn't that convincing (the Mars train stands out). Nobody I guess thought of Derek Meddings or John Dykstra, or maybe they were simply too expensive. There was something about Bran Ferren's approach that they liked, but I think his greatest mistake was that he didn't seem to want to physically move the models. He seemed more like he was dragging stationary shots across the screen, like the Filmation cartoon did. The worst was the "Warp Speed NOW" escape.
To give them some credit, there were a few shots that worked well. The Enterprise against the moon was lovely. The shuttle crash was well realized. 'god" shooting past the Enterprise was beautiful. The BoP flying directly into the camera was the money shot. Even my jaded friend who hated every moment of the film to that point exclaimed "whoa sick!"
In the end, the film wasn't that kinda movie. Even if they replaced every effect, it would only make us say "well at least the effects look good." The movie was still a character based film, an actor's film, more about friendship than spectacle. So if you like the movie, the effects don't do it any harm. If you don't like the movie, betters visuals won't change your mind. Any problems this film has are all in the script.
Look, all I can say is, when I saw this trailer waiting to see Indy Jones 3, I was all sorts of stoked:
I still love this stupid movie.
That’s really what the TOS interior shuttlebay should have been…and vice versa.I do like the 1701-A hangar deck Set complete with two shuttlecrafts.
With the TMP warp pylons moved forward you could almost fit the TAS shuttlebay in that.
I do like the 1701-A hangar deck Set complete with two shuttlecrafts.
Yeah the full size shuttle bay was cool. But I didn't like the rest of the shot. Everything is just a big joke in the movie....
Well yeah....It's depressing to watch for me. I feel like I need to go get some fresh air after watching it. It feels like those old bad Saturday Morning tv shows with cheap effects, sets and bad dialogue. There are a few scene I do like in V but not enough to like the first film. It was too heavy handed in its comedic approach. I guess they were trying to replicate IV's comedy. A film which hasnt really aged all that well either.
Thankfully we get 6 after, which was a big improvement (not great but better) and for all those bashing on Generations. I love that film...
....well except for Kirks death but now that Shatner is 92 I'm more at ease with that scene knowing he can't play Kirk again. I still love the ENTEPRISE D crash.
As time goes merrily by, I find it hits home even more.
I find that I can enjoy any Star Trek movie on some level. Much like how I enjoy the third season of the original series. There is always something for me to appreciate, whether it's the germ of the story, the cast interaction, the music or just plain William Shatner. As long as it involves the original series cast, I can sit through it.
Well, okay I draw the line with I, Mudd. They can absolutely lose every copy of that episode in a studio vault fire.
Well, okay I draw the line with I, Mudd. They can absolutely lose every copy of that episode in a studio vault fire.
Some say it’s the fire in which we burn
No it didn't, if they had the money it would've been less obvious if TNG corridor's panels and doors had the same ridiculously dull grey and red paints wasted on that DMV bridge Meyer thought up. I'm truly getting sick and tired of fans of TUC giving that movie high praises when it was just as flawed as TFF. The reason why the William Shatner movie gets grief was it was released in a huge competitive Summer season of 1989 when it should've been in the Winter season, the plot needed a revision and the special effects was a steaming pile of shit, would anyone think TUC was such a masterpiece if Paramount overruled Meyer and opted for the same guys who did the SFX for TFF???
What TFF would've been if ILM did the effects shots? Story and plot flaws it had but it was the most authentic Star Trek story I ever saw. The movie was beautiful from the national park and desert landscapes scenery to the new looking Enterprise which was attempting to be a pre-cursor to the 1701 - D. Unlike TUC's corridors and doors which stuck out like a sore thumb, in TFF by making the bridge appear more in vain of TNG I thought the corridors and doors blended quite well. We had a villain who was not aping Ricardo Montalban but an antagonist who was searching for something many people, who are believers, strive to endeavor; the ultimate human adventure. Also, I like Shatner's approach in showing the main cast having RNR, but if anyone read "Debt of Honor" I thought that comic book had a better idea on how to handle RNR with George and Gracie in the background.
Comedy was not that good, neither was the cringe worthy attempts done in TUC which made the characters look stupid. Gotta love that Klingon border scene where Uhura is speaking broken Klingon while reading a big fat book.
TFF score was done by a master of orchestration, I don't even know who the fuck did TUC and I know his resume doesn't match anything he'd done post mortem. He has been sought after TFF and every Star Trek movie when alive, how many times the great composer for TUC was asked back to compose Star Trek??? Jerry Goldsmith has made an appropriate score for a movie which embodied faith and belief and it worked throughout the movie. You can continue to put TUC on a pedestal but the reality is it had as many flaws as TFF and quite frankly didn't put the characters in a good light like the previous movie did. TFF intent was never to taint the characters like TUC did so well.
Sorry. TFF was just too silly for me. As I said TUC had it's silly moments as well but not even half of what TFF had.
Last edited:
I prefer to think of time as a companion....
Star Trek was a concept, with the right creative mind, a person can do anything with. Time travel, fantasy, crime stories, science fiction allegories, revenge drama, it all depends on the person who has the thought to do something with those heroes, but the integrity of their characters should be upheld and shouldn't be sacrificed for a story agenda.I find that I can enjoy any Star Trek movie on some level. Much like how I enjoy the third season of the original series. There is always something for me to appreciate, whether it's the germ of the story, the cast interaction, the music or just plain William Shatner. As long as it involves the original series cast, I can sit through it.
Well, okay I draw the line with I, Mudd. They can absolutely lose every copy of that episode in a studio vault fire.
I can believe Shatner didn't like Trek aside from Kirk
It is interesting that slamming TFF is usually combined with but (the humor in) TVH was great, I wouldn't be surprised that viewers eventually become more critical of, less impressed with both as being not that different.
Last edited:
Well, the humor in TVH was more character based for the most part and grew out of the situation. TFF was a very heavy concept with gags inserted. TUC had the same problem. If they had gone back to the same serious feel after the "lighen up" break in ST4, then it would have been like those comedic sojurns in the orignial series. But, alas...
Not that STV would have been a "better" movie but it would have had fewer bad and out of character jokes. We still would have had the rock climbing tho... TUC would have been a better film by far had they left out the gags.
As for the film showrunners not liking Star Trek, I feel more like Harve Bennet wanted to put his own stamp on it as well as move it forward. Look at the first two films he produced:
TWOK killed off Spock and introduced new and younger characters to give Star Trek a fresh slant. Or, as David Gerrold said in his revised edition of "The World of Star Trek" they brought in "new blood."
TSFS: Bennett was saddled with restoring the crew but still wanting to make progress. Spock was back, they offed David but introduced the Excelsior with the intention of putting the crew there in the future.
But by TVH it was clear the fanbase didn't want new, they didn't want forward motion, they wanted the status quo restored. So by the end of TVH, Kirk was demoted to captain, they got the Enterprise back and every was back in their old spots. Which was literally the most boring of the choices they made - as far as I was concerned. While Nimoy's decision to return resulted in my favorite ST film in the run (that would be #3), he scotched the promising developments the finale of TWOK provided.
Last edited:
That is ... certainly an opinion, though not one I believe I've ever encountered before.
I've never made a secret of it. I love that damned movie. I at least have some satisfaction knowing, at the time, some newspaper reviews agreed with me.
Then TVH ruined it.
I've never made a secret of it. I love that damned movie. I at least have some satisfaction knowing, at the time, some newspaper reviews agreed with me.
Then TVH ruined it.
Hey, to each their own. To me, The Search for Spock is the Original Series movie that I am least likely to ever re-watch.
All good. This movie hit me at the right time, exactly the right way. For me, everything about it works. Performances, music, effects....and because I have such a grand time, I forgive the plot holes. Much like I do with TWOK. I routinely do double features.
Similar threads
- Poll
