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Star Trek V TFF every time I see it..
- Thread starter Dar70
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Star Trek V TFF...every time I see it..
I think of the amazing summer of movies we had surrounding it.
Indy 3
Ghostbusters 2
Lethal Weapon 2
Licence to Kill
Batman
Dead Poets Society
The Abyss
Even a universally loved Star Trek V would have had a hard time with that lineup.
I think of the amazing summer of movies we had surrounding it.
Indy 3
Ghostbusters 2
Lethal Weapon 2
Licence to Kill
Batman
Dead Poets Society
The Abyss
Even a universally loved Star Trek V would have had a hard time with that lineup.
Which is why I believed it would've done a lot better during the Christmas season, also I think having TNG becoming King of syndication during that time could've boost interests for audience to go out and see the movie. It was a missed opportunity but the Execs at Paramount at the time were in CYOA mode; desperate to cover the rising debts they've spent. I've mentioned throughout this subject on the movie I felt the script needed more of an Indiana Jones feel to it. The characters - Kirk, Spock, & McCoy - needed to express their view of God or whether they even believed in a Supreme Being???
What do Klingons believe and would the story be about the goal or the journey? I've read articles of people climbing the tallest mountains and had an illumination from the journey and I found it fascinating how they claimed it was their belief in God which propelled them to do it. The journey of the Enterprise crew, Sybok's believers, and the Klingons go on a journey to explore the human condition challenge the limits of existence. In TVH, Bones approached Spock about what was it like to be dead? I can't believe Shatner and the writers blew such a seed which could've launched the story. Sybok should be searching for Spock since he's done something that only God on Earth has ever done. Is it possible there were other messiah's God represented who performed miracles throughout the universe? It seems Klingons have many mythic stories about their icons, and I wouldn't doubt Vulcans have sensational stories as well.
Ssosmcin, Galileo7 and Vger23, in particular I'm asking for your insights on what I'm saying. What do you think?
I always chuckle at this complaint as the corridor set is the original movie refit corridor set. They altered parts of it and reused it for the 1701-D. Yet noone ever really makes a peep that 1701-D reuses the refit corridor set. On the other hand there's always someone whinging "STV: TFF reused the ST: TNG corridor set!" without fail.
Plus the often touted claim that the set was used unaltered is incorrect. They covered up the interface panels on the outer radial wall panels.
Unfortunately, neither Shatner nor Paramount wanted to make that kinda movie. Maybe Shatner wanted to go a little deeper in his concept, but Paramount wanted more lightness coming off the successful comedy movie. And Shatner was always going to do an action piece. The story you're suggesting would wind up being too deep and serious for the movie they wanted, which probably would have been more like TMP.
Having said that, I actually really like a lot of the points you made.
I think the core of what you're saying is correct: the film should should have had a greater focus on the main Star Trek characters. It was instead Sybok's journey. Shatner's original idea was really the problem because it was always about "the evangelist who thinks God is speaking directly to him" and not "does this conflict with the crew's beliefs." It was always about the guest star and Kirk standing up to him. Making it more introspective and philosophical, with some legit discussions certainly would have made for a stronger story in the hands of the right writers.
If they didn't leave the "God" part as a third act twist and had Sybok come clean sooner, then they could have flipped it into a journey of discovery they all could take during the adventure.
Great point about Sybok seeking out Spock because of his resurrection. That would have been easy enough to throw in the dialog without changing much. And Spock having no comment on an afterlife was also a missed opportunity.
No idea if any of these things would have made the film more successful or not, but it may have been seen as an ambitious flop instead of being saddled with the rep is has now.
That would have been interesting.
One thing I have never understood is why Sybok had to be Spock's half-brother. This thing about making every other character a relative of Spock's is such a silly gimmick.
It was still too obviously the Enterprise-D.I always chuckle at this complaint as the corridor set is the original movie refit corridor set. They altered parts of it and reused it for the 1701-D. Yet noone ever really makes a peep that 1701-D reuses the refit corridor set. On the other hand there's always someone whinging "STV: TFF reused the ST: TNG corridor set!" without fail.
Plus the often touted claim that the set was used unaltered is incorrect. They covered up the interface panels on the outer radial wall panels.
It was a gimmick, but in defense of that the whole point of a movie in a franchise is to bring something new for the audience. Sybok being Spock's brother was a revelation, and was also a clue to the audience he would be a misunderstood villain. I am glad you and others are responding to my post but could I get some love for it. Can I get a "Like", please?
One would imagine so, especially with hints throughout other series of Vulcan and Klingon gods, and great beings, similar to mythical Titans or other such demigods.
However, and as @Mr. Spook alludes too, TFF was not really conceived as that kind of movie. Shatner did want to do the search for God type story and originally thought of it as Kirk and crew finding the literal devil. Which, even GR kind of went, "bad idea." Add that in with the studio pushing hard for a comedy like TVH, and Shatner kind of went "Let's try both ways." So he shot for creating that journey to find God but reworked the type of entity at the end.
The other side is the fact that the film works hard to build up Kirk as a character. So, unfortunately, giving time to other characters was often missed, save for the "Hidden Pain" scene. We don't even see Uhura's or Sulu's. It's just a given that they will fall under Sybok's sway.
I agree it's a missed opportunity, but one that was going to be missed from the beginning.
I always chuckle at this complaint as the corridor set is the original movie refit corridor set. They altered parts of it and reused it for the 1701-D. Yet noone ever really makes a peep that 1701-D reuses the refit corridor set. On the other hand there's always someone whinging "STV: TFF reused the ST: TNG corridor set!" without fail.
Plus the often touted claim that the set was used unaltered is incorrect. They covered up the interface panels on the outer radial wall panels.
Because they changed it enough to look different on TNG. In TFF it looks exactly the same. Colors and all....
They made Sybok Spock's brother to explain the strong bond that Spock had with him and make it more believable that Spock would betray Kirk (which was the original plan).
I don't like him being Spock's bother, either, but it was the simplest solution for that story problem.
I suspect it was easier for TNG to change a set used for movies made once every few years than for the TFF guys to change the appearance of an active weekly shooting set.
I liked 5 in 1989, even if it felt like a step backward in some aspects. Some deleted scenes had worldbuilding that I wish were kept in the movie.
The comedy has dated poorly, but it wasn't good to begin with. The heroes being the butt of jokes only works in the "fish out of water" trope. 4's comedy hasn't dated well, but go out the front door and it's not 1986 anymore either. In that regard, tethering to a time and place for the sake of giggles dates it worse than going back to a time and place and playing it out seriously. When the TV episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday" holds up better over time, but I digress.
A lot of the 1701-D corridor sets came from TMP, but they built extra ones too. Sadly, 5 and 6 do suffer from set redresses that aren't redressed enough, but at least 6 generally took itself more seriously - making set reuse generally less irritating... until they got to Engineering where the budget crunch really hit. (was the old warp core set impossible to set back up? Some of it still existed by 1995...)
I'm just thankful that 5 didn't slather it on any worse with the incidental music forcing the jokes and other moments.
5 had the potential to be a great movie but, yep, another draft was needed. Some character moments definitely were perfect, but a movie is more than a bunch of contrived set pieces.
The comedy has dated poorly, but it wasn't good to begin with. The heroes being the butt of jokes only works in the "fish out of water" trope. 4's comedy hasn't dated well, but go out the front door and it's not 1986 anymore either. In that regard, tethering to a time and place for the sake of giggles dates it worse than going back to a time and place and playing it out seriously. When the TV episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday" holds up better over time, but I digress.
A lot of the 1701-D corridor sets came from TMP, but they built extra ones too. Sadly, 5 and 6 do suffer from set redresses that aren't redressed enough, but at least 6 generally took itself more seriously - making set reuse generally less irritating... until they got to Engineering where the budget crunch really hit. (was the old warp core set impossible to set back up? Some of it still existed by 1995...)
I'm just thankful that 5 didn't slather it on any worse with the incidental music forcing the jokes and other moments.
5 had the potential to be a great movie but, yep, another draft was needed. Some character moments definitely were perfect, but a movie is more than a bunch of contrived set pieces.
I generally liked the humor in V but did think the humor in "I, Mudd" was generally a better, more fitting kind.
True. but TFF gets respect from me by reusing the low-pitched red alert klaxon from TMP.
Makes for a fun ringtone, too!
Emotions were Spock's prime bother.
At least he didn't go around saying "I hate emotions!" Unless it was a fan-produced parody...
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