Thanks. You saved me the trouble.
Star Trek TOS Re-Watch
- Thread starter Commander Troi
- Start date
Regarding season 3 being the 'female victim season'...
I'd argue the opposite. Elaan was hardly a victim in "ELAAN OF TROYIUS". Or Deela in "WINK OF AN EYE". Or Odana from "THE MARK OF GIDEON". Or the Romulan Commander in "THE ENTERPRISE INCIDENT". Or Vanna in "THE CLOUD MINDERS". Natira in "FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY" was the leader of her people. Miranda in "IS THERE IN TRUTH NO BEAUTY?" was not only a strong willed woman, but had a disability (being blind) and was still functioning quite well.
Season 3 had more strong women in episodes than in seasons 1 or 2... possibly more than both combined.
CBS redid the vfx to continue marketing TOS to a younger audience. And the old “fans” of the show had limited input as to what should or shouldn’t be done. But far too often they changed things simply for change’s sake and not because it was better. Sone of the changes were genuine garbage and less than mediocre. But ultimately they were inserting things that simply couldn’t have been done back in the day even under the best of conditions with unlimited time and money. As such it all just looks wrong spliced in alongside the original live action footage.
With streaming you’re a hostage to what they allow you to see. With physical media you have the freedom of ownership and to see what you want and whenever you feel like it.
Alternate view: For the most part, the Remastered VFX look perfectly adequate—they’re only jarring when you’re used to watching the original versions fifty thousand times. They’re not creme-de-la-creme CGI, but (and I’ve tested this with my non-Trekker SO) they allow someone who finds the original effects too laughable to watch to watch Star Trek, simply not notice the effects, and see the story instead. They’re fine.
If I'm commenting on the VFX I'm definitely not invested in the story.
And that is how the Remastered VFX saved Star Trek for my SO: she no longer noticed them, where before she had, and they had kept her away.
(I was perfectly fine with the old effects, but that’s because I grew up with them. Her example proves that for at least some people who didn’t, they’re an obstacle; replacing them let her see the story — essentially, it gave her Star Trek. That’s a hell of a lot more important than one of us grognards bitching about something.)
Understood. 
Yeah, this debate has been going on here since they first aired. You joined more recently, so I get why this may sound strange...
Yep the people who made them were fans and they did try to capture the feel of the original, but they were working fast and on a limited budget and CGI on a limited budget looks less than stellar and dates VERY quickly. TBH, some episodes look great. The Romulan ship in Ballance of Terror is spot on. Balok's cube is perfect. The shots of the Enterprise in the atmosphere in Tomorrow is Yesterday is sweet (and the new finale actually makes sense). I can name a few other episodes where the effects look really good. But more often than not, I get pulled out of it because it looks off. Mostly when they strayed away from the meaning of the dialog (a few times in The Doomsday Machine), went in a direction they wouldn't have on TV (the EXTREME close ups of the Enterprise) or the finished effect looked cartoony (the Fasarius dwarfing the Enterprise). While I get that 60's effects don't look good to younger viewers and HD ruined the composites, the old shots still looked organic to the series.
Now....not everyone feels that way. And yup, most people who have never seen the original effects are probably just fine with it. But as someone who has grown up with the series and never felt the effects were inadequate, the original effects will always be my preferred.
As for the sound mix: again, if you didn't grow up with or were accustomed to the original, you won't care. But I miss the original mono mix, which is NOT on the majority of the episodes, regardless of what Paramount claims.
As for Justman and Nimoy, they were people with opinions. I'm sure they were fine with them because, unlike Star Wars, 99.9% of the effects didn't change the meaning of the episodes or scenes and they enhanced the value of the series for future generations. However, there's also a generation of SW fans who have never seen the originals, so it's moot for them.
Having said that, if Paramount/CBS had really invested in top notch effects work and really made them look great and more organic, I would be much happier. It was a nice try but some of the fan films and You Tube takes look better than the official release.
But your milage may vary. It's an opinion and a preference, not an argument.
I don't hate this one. It's not good but it's not the absolute worst. Some of its issues are production problems which I can forgive but I also can't give it any points for.
There's a thin message in this story about a repressed, unequal culture. It was accomplished better in other episodes, and without the go-go boots.
Ion propulsion you say? Oh Scotty, you'll never lose a race to that ship. Strictly 21st century tech!
This episode benefits in the TOS-R with a good digital establishing shot.
A middling 5 out of 10 because it's far less insulting than some of the other episodes I mentioned today.
Very true, but, initially, I did find the restored DVD version released around 2006 jarring, having grown up watching the version with the 'flickering' fx with all its scratches, etc.
But at least that team put in an enormous effort to try and recreate the 1933 viewing experience rather than put a modern spin on an old classic.
edit to add:
From the above link, here's what the TOS-R team didn't do:
"This situation amplified the key challenge facing any film restoration project — how to subtly make enough changes to improve the quality of the viewing experience as it was originally intended by filmmakers without overdoing it."
Well, you do you.
The story and the VFX are important elements of the original production. There were numerous new VFX shots created specifically for the episode. It's a legitimate part of the experience.
It is legitimate, but lower tier for me.
An argument I’ve often heard is, “What could they have done if these contemporary tools were available?”
It’s a bogus argument. Firstly they likely couldn’t have imagined what they could have done if such contemporary tools were available because they couldn’t have imagined such tools. Secondly even if they had been available in some form they would have still seen things from a mid 1960’s perspective and a not an early 2000’s perspective. They would have visualized things differently.
The better question is how might things have looked if TOS had had more money, time and resources as they existed back in the day?
It’s a safe bet it wouldn’t have looked anything like mediocre 2000’s era cgi.
It’s a bogus argument. Firstly they likely couldn’t have imagined what they could have done if such contemporary tools were available because they couldn’t have imagined such tools. Secondly even if they had been available in some form they would have still seen things from a mid 1960’s perspective and a not an early 2000’s perspective. They would have visualized things differently.
The better question is how might things have looked if TOS had had more money, time and resources as they existed back in the day?
It’s a safe bet it wouldn’t have looked anything like mediocre 2000’s era cgi.
Yeah, I found that a little odd, but there really wasn't room for him in any further scenes.
That music will be with me until I die.
I'll take your word for it. I only have streaming available (I know: bad Trekkie! no tribble!) and it's been so long since I'd seen it, I wasn't entirely sure which FX were new (I have a few guesses). However...
I was honestly too caught up in the story and the characters to pay much attention to the FX. The changes weren't enough to take me out of the suspension of disbelief.
I was going to say, there do seem to be quite a few male victims in The Empath. Also, Is There No Truth In Beauty is not a bad episode, definitely worthy of a higher score than 3/10 that the poster gave it.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 1960's TV series having special effects that look like they were made in the 1960's. Nobody has "upgraded" The Outer Limits, The Invaders, The Twilight Zone, Lost in Space, UFO, or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. But, then again, none of these are franchises. I would rather the original series have new effects than have it fall into memory in favor of newer shows because people can't tolerate anything that doesn't look more modern.
While I do wish the original versions were available to stream - and they haven't been since they were taken off Prime a few years ago - the Blu Rays are a decent, if imperfect, option. But I generally stick with the DVDs which don't have seamless branching related errors. I dig deep for the Laserdiscs for the sound mix.
Same. I much prefer it that way.
Everyone has their preferences. I just know that when I watch the originals, I never notice the effects any more than I notice the sets. They're there and always have been.
But when I watch TOS-R, I am always aware. For almost 40 years, I watched Star Trek and it looked a certain way. Suddenly, it was altered, so I always notice. Sometimes I don't mind, but 80% of the time, I shut it off and put on the original version. I'm not enjoying the story.
And the change in the opening theme music is unbearable to me, especially the last two seasons. So if I watch the TOS-R prints, it's gonna be on Blu Ray so I can go with the "original" sound mix.
But when I watch TOS-R, I am always aware. For almost 40 years, I watched Star Trek and it looked a certain way. Suddenly, it was altered, so I always notice. Sometimes I don't mind, but 80% of the time, I shut it off and put on the original version. I'm not enjoying the story.
And the change in the opening theme music is unbearable to me, especially the last two seasons. So if I watch the TOS-R prints, it's gonna be on Blu Ray so I can go with the "original" sound mix.
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