Star Trek TOS Re-Watch
- Thread starter Commander Troi
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I think the version where Rand herself says the line would probably play better today than the aired version. While they're both totally inappropriate and the whole sentiment should've been cut entirely (insert the TOS Writers' Bible shitting on Rand and Kirk clutching each other on the bridge in the face of impending death in "Balance of Terror" here), Rand herself freely telling Kirk that she's kinky and she'd be into it under proper circumstances is a lot less gross in 2022 than Spock, out of nowhere, assuming she felt that way and calling her out for it.
I think a similar situation is how gross Uhura's "Sorry, neither" line in "The Naked Time" would've been if Spock had said it instead of her.
Though, I suppose, in either case, it's a male writer putting the words into the mouth of a female character, which complicates things further.
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Well, according to Memory Alpha, John Black revised the Matheson teleplay in early June 1966 and Roddenberry made additional edits a week later. So maybe he was responding to the network criticism – though they seemed only concerned about Kirk’s image.
I felt really sorry for Grace…IIRC, it was just a few shows later, after “Miri” when GR sexually assaulted her. At least that’s what I’ve read.
And yet, while Grace said in her memoir she was very unhappy about the last scene of “Enemy Within” --saying what a cruel comment for Spock to make to Rand -- she also said she enjoyed the episode because it challenged her as an actress. ”That really was what Kirk and Rand were about. There were two sides of Kirk and two sides of Rand. She was there to serve him but she was also in love with him. And she knew she mustn't go over the boundaries."
It is amazing how that scene strikes people now compared to when it first aired.
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Sorry I didn't get back to you for a couple of days, real life took me away for a while.
Thank you very much for the transcript, I appreciate it. I would give you ten likes if I could.
Anyway, it seems to me the 'interesting qualities' remark comes from the old thing of "Women are attracted to bad boys" thing. I'm not excusing it, Hollywood sometimes had a bad habit of treating lightly or even romanticizing sexual assault back then. "Gone With the Wind" had a pretty bad example of it for one.
Robert
I also take cupcakes. But seriously, it was brief and no trouble at all. And some day when that image is a dead link, the thread will still be readable.
The episode had a lot of adult edge to it even for today, with a big, violent near-rape scene. It seems they wanted to give the concluding dialogue some daring sexual energy, and at the same time leave Kirk and Rand on a positive note. But the "daring" part tripped them up because the fight scene between Evil Kirk and Rand wasn't sexy. They should have let that part be and just written a "Kirk is forgiven" scene.
I don’t like talking about these parts of the episode as I find it all a bit unsettling, my take is that Kirk *did* assault Yeoman Rand even though it was his bad side that did it. When ‘good Kirk’ and ‘bad Kirk’ were reintegrated, the ‘yolked’ Kirk still bore the scars of his bad side. I’m talking about the scars of his actions, not the resulting scratches which also came through after the merger of his ‘good’ and ‘bad’ sides which also visually proves the point.
Can we start talking about this weeks episode soon please? The Man Trap? Something a bit less controversial?
I think you've got it wrong. Evil Kirk and Good Kirk after the transporter accident are not Kirk. Neither of them are Kirk.
Evil Kirk is to Kirk as pure sodium metal (Na) is to table salt (NaCl).
Sodium is explosive and chlorine is poisonous, while sodium chloride is an essential nutrient. In the same manner, Kirk is a compound, not an element.
That works.
Hhhmm now you don't want to talk about it I do. LOLI don’t like talking about these parts of the episode as I find it all a bit unsettling, my take is that Kirk *did* assault Yeoman Rand even though it was his bad side that did it. When ‘good Kirk’ and ‘bad Kirk’ were reintegrated, the ‘yolked’ Kirk still bore the scars of his bad side. I’m talking about the scars of his actions, not the resulting scratches which also came through after the merger of his ‘good’ and ‘bad’ sides which also visually proves the point.
Can we start talking about this weeks episode soon please? The Man Trap? Something a bit less controversial?
Now I think that we all agree that Spock's comments were terrible and it would be even worse if they came from Kirk. However if we examine the comments I don't think that Spock meant that it would be good to be raped by Kirk. I believe what he meant was "Girlfriend on the bright side - at least 'evil' Kirk wasn't emasculated by Starflee'ts rules and regulations". We like to think things are better for women now than they were in the 60s but they are not. Of course if the episode were today Spock would not have made those comments. I also think it was appalling how Rand had to face Kirk after what he had done to her. She should have had a counsellor/lawyer. McCoy was probably supposed to be it but he and Spock are too close to Kirk. She need someone independent to protect her rights. And if the crewman had not been a witness to the attack then it would have been Rand's word against Kirk's and guess who everyone would have believed? Same as in the 60s as it is today
If this was modern Trek, Rand's story would have been given proper resolution, probably in Dagger of the Mind. Kirk's feelings were outed in Enemy Within, Rand's in Miri, and then those feelings could have been horribly corrupted beyond repair in Dagger.I don’t like talking about these parts of the episode as I find it all a bit unsettling, my take is that Kirk *did* assault Yeoman Rand even though it was his bad side that did it. When ‘good Kirk’ and ‘bad Kirk’ were reintegrated, the ‘yolked’ Kirk still bore the scars of his bad side. I’m talking about the scars of his actions, not the resulting scratches which also came through after the merger of his ‘good’ and ‘bad’ sides which also visually proves the point.
Can we start talking about this weeks episode soon please? The Man Trap? Something a bit less controversial?
Well, I shall be indulging in The Naked Time tonight. This episode from what I remember should just be a harmless romp. I think that it was a comedy episode of sorts, probably a bit of light hearted mess after the intensity of the past few episodes. I remember a sweaty Sulu running around the ship topless with a sword and that the virus on the ship is the same that infected the Enteprise D crew in the indirect sequel to this episode… The Naked Now.
“Data, you are fully functional aren't you?” Yar questions Lt Cmdr Data suggestively, their eyes locked and unflinching.
“Of course, but...” Replies Data, his mannerisms as ever still quite matter of fact, artificially calm and controlled.
Tasha continues to move closer to her Commander seductively… predatory. “How… fully?” She demands of her superior.
“In every way, I am programed in multiple techniques…” States the android in response to Yar’s query, as he begins to initiate his subroutines.
“Oh! You jewel!” Yar says excitedly as she moves in for the kill, like a cougar pouncing on to it’s prey. Data’s lips begin to ‘pucker’.
*FADES TO BLACK*
Sorry, I don’t know any The Naked Time quotes yet, but I should do by tomorrow!
“Data, you are fully functional aren't you?” Yar questions Lt Cmdr Data suggestively, their eyes locked and unflinching.
“Of course, but...” Replies Data, his mannerisms as ever still quite matter of fact, artificially calm and controlled.
Tasha continues to move closer to her Commander seductively… predatory. “How… fully?” She demands of her superior.
“In every way, I am programed in multiple techniques…” States the android in response to Yar’s query, as he begins to initiate his subroutines.
“Oh! You jewel!” Yar says excitedly as she moves in for the kill, like a cougar pouncing on to it’s prey. Data’s lips begin to ‘pucker’.
*FADES TO BLACK*
Sorry, I don’t know any The Naked Time quotes yet, but I should do by tomorrow!
Oh right, I will try to take it seriously then. I always got the impression that it was a comedy episode when I was younger. I may have misinterpreted the episode at the time.
In "The Naked Now" if I recall, they get hit with a different contaminant that has similar effects. But some of the actors fall back on the most clichéd hiccup mannerisms, because evidently they were simply told to "act drunk." That TNG fumble might be why you associate this plot with comedy. Or maybe Kevin Riley's escapades in the TOS version was why. There was some comedy in there.
Having rewatched this last Thanksgiving I can tell you that it is not a comedy. It has some lighter moments, but it definitely is not the same tone as "The Naked Now." The whole thing is very dramatic, with some rather emotional moments.
I don't say this to discourage but to say that you might want to adjust your expectations.
Hilarious moment; Swashbuckling Sulu was attempting to save the "fair maiden" to which Uhura replies, "Sorry, neither."
I always loved that line, even when I was too young to understand it. I just loved how Nichelle said it.
Her delivery absolutely sells the story. 
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