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Star Trek TMP: First Viewing Opinion and Queries

He looks at them and immediately concludes that Kirk isn't fit for duty.
That's not what happens.

“These anagram conversions on the captain mean what?” asked McCoy. “Do you see them as stress indications?”
McCoy then reflects on Kirk being kicked upstairs to be Admiral and how McCoy resigned from Starfleet over it.

Chapel then notes
“ . . . and in his case,” Chapel continued, “starship command fitted his psychological needs so perfectly that deprivation of it produced physical and emotional symptoms remarkably like those associated with narcotic withdrawal.”
And that's as far as it goes.

Also McCoy notes that at that point he only had fifteen hours of data on Kirk onboard the Enterprise.
 
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I'm thrilled that you enjoyed the film. TMP is the most TOS and most Star Trek of all the Trek films. People who consider it "boring" or criticize the characters for "not being themselves" miss the point of the film entirely. The ultimate message of the film is about self-discovery and learning that you are incomplete until you figure out where you belong. It's brilliant that Kirk, Spock, McCoy to an extent, Decker, and Illia are all in the same place in their lives, just as V'Ger is. The movie truly is what the best Trek is about: exploring the final frontier of the human adventure. Though Earth is in danger, V'Ger isn't a villain and teaches our heroes about themselves in the course of learning about itself. TMP remains my favorite TOS film and one of my top films in any genre.
 
I'm thrilled that you enjoyed the film. TMP is the most TOS and most Star Trek of all the Trek films. People who consider it "boring" or criticize the characters for "not being themselves" miss the point of the film entirely. The ultimate message of the film is about self-discovery and learning that you are incomplete until you figure out where you belong. It's brilliant that Kirk, Spock, McCoy to an extent, Decker, and Illia are all in the same place in their lives, just as V'Ger is. The movie truly is what the best Trek is about: exploring the final frontier of the human adventure. Though Earth is in danger, V'Ger isn't a villain and teaches our heroes about themselves in the course of learning about itself. TMP remains my favorite TOS film and one of my top films in any genre.
For sure.
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TMP remains my favorite TOS film and one of my top films in any genre.

Totally agree. Love TMP -- and I actually had the same immersive feeling watching the first Kelvinverse movie in 2009. Lots of people disagreed with me, but I sat next to a friend who had also become a Trek fan with TMP -- and she had the same experience in 2009. Not sure why these films worked so well for us, but WOW.


Star Trek commemorative coin, 2009 by Ian McLean, on Flickr
 
Totally agree. Love TMP -- and I actually had the same immersive feeling watching the first Kelvinverse movie in 2009. Lots of people disagreed with me, but I sat next to a friend who had also become a Trek fan with TMP -- and she had the same experience in 2009. Not sure why these films worked so well for us, but WOW.


Star Trek commemorative coin, 2009 by Ian McLean, on Flickr
I can't argue with what you feel. I can tell you what I feel.

TMP always felt like the world was thought out and planned to a ridiculous degree. Because it was. Partly owing to being based on not one but two TV shows. I know it's far from bulletproof. But TMP was definitely "overdesigned". Perhaps (some would say) to the detriment of the film. (I wouldn't say that. TMP is a part of Star Trek where I want to climb inside and pull the door shut after me.)

JJ Trek doesn't feel like that (to me) because it wasn't. Aggressively wasn't. JJ himself railed against such an instinct. Which is why you get such evocative concepts as "red matter" and "a black hole that was going to destroy the galaxy but just got Romulus." Anything more than that is "technobabble" to him.

What 2009 does have is a narrative and character structure that grabs you by the nostrils and doesn't let you go. I always wish that JJ could find some collaborator that could cancel out his worst instincts. His sense of character and casting is nearly unmatched.
 
First post, go easy on me, but I just recently watched The Motion Picture and yes, while it was slow, it was still a great watch! Do people really say to skip it? The character interactions were funny and memorable, and I really enjoyed the reveal of V'ger being Voyager 6 at the end (I thought it was quite clever, though maybe it was obvious to others). Plus, Decker and Ilia (whose subplot I originally found annoying) was actually quite sweet. Yes, some scenes are quite long, but the movie has a methodical and steady feel to it, and its comforting. I would enjoy having it on as a kind of filler as it is interesting enough to watch but not super distracting. The DVD I watched it on also had great features with a reunion of some of the extras who were in the big hall scene and I loved hearing the stories they had to share.

As a new fan, there's something I've noticed: those damn uniforms. What is going on with those? Why do they change so much? Kirk has at least 5 different outfits throughout the film, not to mention the general difference between the uniforms there and in the show. And from glimpses from the other films, they change even more! Does anyone have any behind the scenes information for these decisions or perhaps the uniforms' designs ? I'm sure canon reasons have been created for their exsistence, but the general variety within this film and to the next boggles my mind. I'm interested in why Gene and the producers etc felt these were necessary.

Some other thoughts: Spock in the film is particularly interesting if you consider his connection to V'ger and also his reaction to the crew when he comes aboard. He's very cold and awkward, which shocks even his closest friends. To me, it makes total sense: he just failed the Kolinahr and is probably feeling an immense sense of loss and disappointment in himself. So, to fortify his mind against emotions, he ignores his old friends, refuses to take a seat until Kirk practically begs. Maybe this is expanded on in the later films, but I have yet to see them. I have heard how this film is the first adventurous step into adapting Star Trek into a film base, and whenever I found myself perhaps bored or antsy in viewing, I imagined myself as a Trek fan in 79, not having seen new Trek on screen in a decade, and imagine the absolute awe that must have been felt from this film. For that, I forgive and appreciate that 6 minute docking scene haha. It was a bold move in a post Star Wars world.

I know none of this is probably new to any of you on here, but I hope you'll indulge this post :)
For those of us who saw it on opening weekend in the theater, it is hard to describe how exciting it was. Trek was from the small screen and the transition to “feature film” was intimidating, I guess. Star Wars had SFX that made TOS look silly by comparison, so there was immense pressure to produce a similarly visual spectacle like 2001: A Space Odyssey. I thought the set design and costumes were heavily influenced by 2001. That pressure plus ridiculous deadlines resulted in a script that was less than what was expected and hoped for. Our Trek characters weren’t fully used and didn’t have the kinds of interactions the show was known for. Still, I remember the applause at the OPENING credits for every actor’s name. The anticipation was nuts. And we went to see it over and over again even if it wasn’t exactly what we thought Trek should be. The story idea wasn’t the problem— direction was cumbersome and editing was plain negligent. But it made lots of money, enough to warrant another film and ST II brought back much of the original feeling of the show. Fortunately.
 
I'm thrilled that you enjoyed the film. TMP is the most TOS and most Star Trek of all the Trek films. People who consider it "boring" or criticize the characters for "not being themselves" miss the point of the film entirely. The ultimate message of the film is about self-discovery and learning that you are incomplete until you figure out where you belong. It's brilliant that Kirk, Spock, McCoy to an extent, Decker, and Illia are all in the same place in their lives, just as V'Ger is. The movie truly is what the best Trek is about: exploring the final frontier of the human adventure. Though Earth is in danger, V'Ger isn't a villain and teaches our heroes about themselves in the course of learning about itself. TMP remains my favorite TOS film and one of my top films in any genre.

💯 % agree with this. No Star Trek film has ever came close to the feeling of TOS as TMP did. Except for the updated ship and effects the story is very TOS. (Yes I'm aware the story is similar to the Changling) . 😂

I love this film. Loved it when I first saw it and still love it today. It wasn't supposed to be extreme action. I think that is the issue many had or have with this film. To me it's like a high budget TOS episode.

TMP is probably my Favorite Trek film. Watch it every couple years.
 
Totally agree. Love TMP -- and I actually had the same immersive feeling watching the first Kelvinverse movie in 2009. Lots of people disagreed with me, but I sat next to a friend who had also become a Trek fan with TMP -- and she had the same experience in 2009. Not sure why these films worked so well for us, but WOW.


Star Trek commemorative coin, 2009 by Ian McLean, on Flickr

I wish they had not tethered the 2009 film into the prime universe. Whenever I watch those films I'm thinking....Spock from TOS created this universe. Kinda takes me out of it... 😂.

I didn't have the feeling I had with TMP. But I was much older when I saw ST 2009 and my brain was more filled up then it was when I first saw TMP. 😂
 
Wasn't it the red matter in Spock's ship that created the wormhole that flung them back in time???

The red matter was taken there in an effort to create a black hole to absorb the exploding star. Although Spock's plan succeeded and the supernova was eliminated, he was too late to save Romulus, which was destroyed.

"Subsequent to the creation of the black hole, Spock was confronted in his ship by the Romulan mining vessel Narada, commanded by Nero, who held Spock responsible for the destruction of his homeworld. During the confrontation, both ships were pulled into the black hole and transported back in time through a tunnel in spacetime, the Narada arriving in the year 2233, resulting in the creation of an alternate reality." [Memory Alpha]
 
The red matter was taken there in an effort to create a black hole to absorb the exploding star. Although Spock's plan succeeded and the supernova was eliminated, he was too late to save Romulus, which was destroyed.

"Subsequent to the creation of the black hole, Spock was confronted in his ship by the Romulan mining vessel Narada, commanded by Nero, who held Spock responsible for the destruction of his homeworld. During the confrontation, both ships were pulled into the black hole and transported back in time through a tunnel in spacetime, the Narada arriving in the year 2233, resulting in the creation of an alternate reality." [Memory Alpha]
Right but it was still in part Spock's fault as well. But whichever way I could never get over the fact that it was a branched off timeline created by this event.
 
First post,

Welcome!

go easy on me,
Will do! :devil:


but I just recently watched The Motion Picture and yes, while it was slow, it was still a great watch! Do people really say to skip it?

Some people do, more did in the past. Others have responded lately that it has had a reappraisal over the years and fans, including me, were given a treat with that 4K release that even provides the same level of loving care in restoring the extended version, shown on TV in puny 4:3 aspect, now fully restored in proper sequence and shown at glorious 2.35:1. It's also the version I recommend the most, especially given the context of fandom at the time, where there were no new Enterprise missions - just reruns - and a lot of excised material added some neat snippets, even if the overall underlying plot wasn't as great as sliced bread-- more on that later...

The character interactions were funny and memorable, and I really enjoyed the reveal of V'ger being Voyager 6 at the end (I thought it was quite clever, though maybe it was obvious to others).

One has to ask how far it had gone out and what the machine fritter it collided with was doing in our portion of the galaxy, relatively speaking. That aside, Voyager 6 was a cool reveal - even if 6 wasn't a real thing (only 1 & 2 were launched), so the probe - between fictional point of launch and TMP - would have a net shorter distance. But that's part of the fun, and retroactively stamping in a solution isn't as interesting as what fans contribute. At the time of release, 1979, space travel was still exciting and forward-thinking, without all the realities of distance and other factors. In some ways, it still is, but mostly in terms of terraforming possibilities rather than galactic exploration - not just yet anyway.

Plus, Decker and Ilia (whose subplot I originally found annoying) was actually quite sweet. Yes, some scenes are quite long, but the movie has a methodical and steady feel to it, and its comforting. I would enjoy having it on as a kind of filler as it is interesting enough to watch but not super distracting. The DVD I watched it on also had great features with a reunion of some of the extras who were in the big hall scene and I loved hearing the stories they had to share.

It was okay... it was the result of a discarded subplot in the aborted "Phase II" sequel series commissioned for launching a Paramount-centric network around 1975/6. (Am going from memory on that.) The network attempt folded, so Phase II was rested... but retooled as TMP, thanks to Star Wars being popular. (Paramount would eventually get its own network in 1995, however...)

As a new fan, there's something I've noticed: those damn uniforms. What is going on with those?

Earth tones were popular, especially after the more florid late-60s "BROUGHT TO YOU IN LIVING COLOR"*, as well as the 70s' final throes of the - eww, cooties - sexual revolution where anything one got could readily be treated. Note that all this was just before the AIDS crisis hit as there were no medications for that at the time**, where tight clothing was something of the norm. But that's the real-world influence. In-universe, they're supposed to be more wieldy and utilitarian, less militaristic since Starfleet was deemed as being more and other than that pew-pew stuff, as well as showing utopian aspects (yay, everyone wearing the same thing, how utopian! Depends on your POV, though...)

* I love TOS's aesthetic, which - while exploiting new color TV of the time - had the designers really work that color wheel to balance so many hues so effectively. It's legitimately glorious. But a decade later, that sort of thing would never fly. Now imagine the same bold colors, and so many, on a large 65-foot screen. People would need to wear sunglasses...​
** but were for everything else, yet little did people know that treatment-resistant versions of bacterial and virii-based STDs would become an issue a couple of decades later, but I digress...​

Why do they change so much? Kirk has at least 5 different outfits throughout the film, not to mention the general difference between the uniforms there and in the show. And from glimpses from the other films, they change even more! Does anyone have any behind the scenes information for these decisions or perhaps the uniforms' designs ? I'm sure canon reasons have been created for their exsistence, but the general variety within this film and to the next boggles my mind. I'm interested in why Gene and the producers etc felt these were necessary.

Great questions!

In universe, I've no clue. Captain's prerogative?

In real life, no clue. Then again, Spock and McCoy are seen with swapped command colors in a scene at the end then back again...


Some other thoughts: Spock in the film is particularly interesting if you consider his connection to V'ger and also his reaction to the crew when he comes aboard. He's very cold and awkward, which shocks even his closest friends. To me, it makes total sense: he just failed the Kolinahr and is probably feeling an immense sense of loss and disappointment in himself. So, to fortify his mind against emotions, he ignores his old friends, refuses to take a seat until Kirk practically begs.

Good point! I thought he was still self-practicing for Kolinahr, all while under the psi presence of the alien being. As with all things sci-fi, how electronic gizmos can impact or be recognized by biochemical processes so strongly on conscious level (or vice-versa) remains questionable...At least Spock never put an android out with the neck pinch... then again, electromagnetic radiation and other elements can affect the consciousness in indirect ways - just not telepathy as we coin it. Not to mention no visitations with extraterrestrial fritters of any sort to prove or disprove that, either...

Maybe this is expanded on in the later films, but I have yet to see them.

I promise to keep my mouth shut, but this forum is loaded with spoilers - small or large, so do play hopscotch on this and if you're not into spoilers, I'd opine to make posts and not looking stuff up as you'd stumble on spoilers all over the place for so much...

I have heard how this film is the first adventurous step into adapting Star Trek into a film base, and whenever I found myself perhaps bored or antsy in viewing, I imagined myself as a Trek fan in 79, not having seen new Trek on screen in a decade, and imagine the absolute awe that must have been felt from this film. For that, I forgive and appreciate that 6 minute docking scene haha. It was a bold move in a post Star Wars world.

:luvlove::luvlove::luvlove::luvlove::luvlove:

It is awe-inducing, especially the well-crafted scale of the ships and how the humans therein interact. True, a couple locations beg questions as to where they go to the bathroom and other sundry things (they just use the transporter and beam elsewhere, of course), but that's secondary. The biggie was to show scale, and likely in ways that didn't compete against Star Wars as it already had its own scale. TMP presents this sense of scale magnificently.

Even in rewatches, depending on mood, I will sometimes try to emulate that mindset. Even then as - returning to one thing I'd mentioned earlier - the story isn't quite perfect and some scenes do drag on. All in all, I will watch it all and not go for edited editions where, despite some improvements, there are some minuses as well (If you've not seen the director's edition, I won't say what's what.) Regardless, there are still scenes that always impress and, in rewatches, new facets or perspectives can be found (IMHO).

I know none of this is probably new to any of you on here, but I hope you'll indulge this post :)

Absolutely! Fresh takes are great! :techman:
 
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