Star Trek-TMP Directors Edition NOT on Blu-Ray!!!

[JDF]

The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.

You're correct about that. The correct term is "shooting on twos", and that's for animated films, not for animated effects overlain on live action which is by definition shot on ones.

I figured there was a more "proper" term, I just didn't know what it was.

The new "animated" V'ger bridge though always bothered me and never bought the idea of trying to copy the look of "traditional cel animation" by double-framing it. Truth is, for a movie like this, it never would have been traditional double-frame cel animation. They would have single-frame shot it like even Disney has always done with key scenes in their own theatrical animations.

Hiya, JDF. Robert Swarthe did an absolutely masterful animation job for ST:TMP's wormhole live-action and V'ger transcendence sequences (see Cinefex #11 for details). That Swarthe would have suddenly got lazy for the Voyager 6 Island "bridge building" effects - as that bloated hack Dochterman asserted - is a rather disgusting professional insult to a brilliant artist.

TGT

Hi back at ya', and I agree.

It's been a while since I last posted around here. I pop in every once in a while to see what's going on, but I knew this release news would draw you in. I figured I'd jump in too.

 

[ACE]

I greatly look forward to the Blu-ray releases of this - and the rest of the films.

I do enjoy both versions of TMP. I would imagine that someday there will be the Director's Edition on Blu. But, it would require a complete re-render of the Lightwave scenes to HD, or even preferably 4k for that matter (to match the film scans).

I sincerely hope that the other films' special editions are available along with the theatrical versions via seamless branching on single Blu-ray discs, perhaps with a second disc to hold more of the special features.

As far as the V'Ger melding animation goes - I agree that the 2-framing was inappropriate for a feature film and should be corrected in a new HD version.

 

[Indysolo]

Robert Swarthe did an absolutely masterful animation job for ST:TMP's wormhole live-action and V'ger transcendence sequences (see Cinefex #11 for details). That Swarthe would have suddenly got lazy for the Voyager 6 Island "bridge building" effects - as that bloated hack Dochterman asserted - is a rather disgusting professional insult to a brilliant artist.

TGT

Mojo is credited with the quote about the hand animation being done two frames at a time. He even says, "I thought to myself, 'How would they have done this back then?'". See page 56 of Star Trek - The Magazine Volume 2, Issue 8 for details.

A little fact checking goes a long way, but then it might also go against your personal crusade against the creators of The Director's Edition and I guess you couldn't have that.

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Mojo is credited with the quote about the hand animation being done two frames at a time. He even says, "I thought to myself, 'How would they have done this back then?'". See page 56 of Star Trek - The Magazine Volume 2, Issue 8 for details.

A little fact checking goes a long way, but then it might also go against your personal crusade against the creators of The Director's Edition and I guess you couldn't have that.

Dochterman was the CGI "supervisor" of this disaster, was he not? If so then he bears at least as much responsibility as Leibowitz for permitting the latter to get away with turning in such a profoundly shitty animation sequence.

TGT

 

[JDF]

too many clicks

 

[JDF]

Robert Swarthe did an absolutely masterful animation job for ST:TMP's wormhole live-action and V'ger transcendence sequences (see Cinefex #11 for details). That Swarthe would have suddenly got lazy for the Voyager 6 Island "bridge building" effects - as that bloated hack Dochterman asserted - is a rather disgusting professional insult to a brilliant artist.

TGT

Mojo is credited with the quote about the hand animation being done two frames at a time. He even says, "I thought to myself, 'How would they have done this back then?'". See page 56 of Star Trek - The Magazine Volume 2, Issue 8 for details.

A little fact checking goes a long way, but then it might also go against your personal crusade against the creators of The Director's Edition and I guess you couldn't have that.

Neil

Actually, it shows how little they knew about film VFX animation in general - "back then" or otherwise. Apparently their only real exposure to how animation was done was through Saturday morning cartoons.

 

[NewHorizon]

Wow...you 'experts' are really angry, bitter, asswads.

TMPE is far from a disaster. Sorry you think it is, but in any case. I feel it makes TMP a hell of a lot better.

 

[trevanian]

Wow...you 'experts' are really angry, bitter, asswads.

TMPE is far from a disaster. Sorry you think it is, but in any case. I feel it makes TMP a hell of a lot better.

We just know our stuff, that's all, and that's enough to make an intelligent person sound (and in some cases act) bitter.

The shooting on twos argument is total horseshit for a feature film of that time, you'd get fired for shooting on ones for cartoon animation on TV, not for the big feature of the year. Swarthe's stuff is magnifcent, as is a lot of Harry Moreau's, and I doubt anything in TMP was shot on two (though there were some double-printing effects that are less than laudable, during the spockwalk as I recall.)

 

[Gepard]

TMP: DE is far from a disaster. Sorry you think it is, but in any case. I feel it makes TMP a hell of a lot better.

In the manner that gold plating makes fecal matter better, then yes.

 

[trevanian]

I feel it makes TMP a hell of a lot better.

Unfortunately my grasp of the English language is insufficient to accurately describe just how little your opinion on this or any other subject interests me.

TGT

this is maybe the third time in a day that a reply has wound up with my username over somebody else's quote. Are the mods trying to frame me/Oswald me? The other ones all have somebody's post saying WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH is the best bond movie ever, and I know I never thought that, let alone said it.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

^ Fixed!

I feel it makes TMP a hell of a lot better.

Unfortunately my grasp of the English language is insufficient to accurately describe just how little your opinion on this or any other subject interests me.

TGT

 

[Maurice]

Wow...you 'experts' are really angry, bitter, asswads.

Can't we be civil with one another when we disagree? Why does it so often devolve into sniping and name calling? This isn't the primate house: why not keep our hands clean and leave the shit on the floor?

 

[cardinal biggles]

Wow...you 'experts' are really angry, bitter, asswads.

You sure know how to make an introduction. Calling folks "asswads" isn't exactly getting off on the right foot, though it sure does get you noticed.

Can't we be civil with one another when we disagree? Why does it so often devolve into sniping and name calling? This isn't the primate house: why not keep our hands clean and leave the shit on the floor?

Oooh, "The Primate House." I like it! I was looking for a new name for this forum. Unfortunately, Trek XI has already claimed "Romper Room."

 

[Gepard]

Oooh, "The Primate House." I like it! I was looking for a new name for this forum. Unfortunately, Trek XI has already claimed "Romper Room."

Just once I would like to see what you guys discuss in that super-secret forum of yours.

 

[cardinal biggles]

But then I'd have to kill you.

 

[Gepard]

But then I'd have to kill you.

I suggest making everyone a moderator for a day and having at it.

 

[NewHorizon]

Unfortunately my grasp of the English language is insufficient...

Aptly demonstrated by your ever so eloquently stated 'opinions'.

...to accurately describe just how little your opinion on this or any other subject interests me.

TGT

I couldn't care less. Anyone who has to express an opinion by resorting to petty name calling has no opinion worthy of consideration in my books.

Cheers!

 

[Joker]

I couldn't care less. Anyone who has to express an opinion by resorting to petty name calling has no opinion worthy of consideration in my books.

Grow some skin for fuck's sake.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Unfortunately my grasp of the English language is insufficient...

Aptly demonstrated by your ever so eloquently stated 'opinions'.

...to accurately describe just how little your opinion on this or any other subject interests me.

I couldn't care less. Anyone who has to express an opinion by resorting to petty name calling has no opinion worthy of consideration in my books.

Cheers!

This is neither a perfect world nor is it a debating society, and you're hardly one to criticize anybody for "petty name calling." As I said above, you didn't exactly make a good first impression by referring to certain folks as "bitter asswads."

If you don't want to read the posts of people you don't like, there's an "ignore" option you can select. I suggest doing so. Otherwise, stick to criticizing posts rather than posters.

Grow some skin for fuck's sake.

You're not helping.

 

[Herbert1]

Did Katzenberg not believe Yuricich that he could deliver the mattes in time and duplication of effort was given to Apogee?

Was the Robert Abel & Associates special effects footage really unsuitable for use in the film and they deserved to be fired and replaced by Trumbull and Apogee? Over the years, I have heard that RA&A couldn't create effects because Livingston and Roddenberry kept rewriting the film during production and what they wanted constantly changing.

Since they billed the Director's Edition as the intended version of Star Trek: The Motion Picture if Trumbull and Apogee had sufficient time to complete the special effects, I am just shocked that the CGI effects footage is not good enough for release on Blu-Ray. Especially with digital television just around the corner. Didn't they also release the DE in theatres in a few cities before the release on DVD?