And the latter could have a lot to do with fallout over the former.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Just watched this again yesterday and yeah at the end when M'Benga says:
"I didn't start the fight..."
Taken in context with the rest of the conversation, yes, "The fight"" M'Benga is referring to is the one back on Jgal where M'Benga killed the 3 Klingons and yeah, in his mind/view, that's the fight he finally finished - and that's how Chapel sees it as well when she gives her statement about the incident to La'an.
In M'Benga's view, the request for the general to leave was the only/last chance M'Benga was going to give to 'end' their fight, but Rahl didn't take it.
"I didn't start the fight..."
Taken in context with the rest of the conversation, yes, "The fight"" M'Benga is referring to is the one back on Jgal where M'Benga killed the 3 Klingons and yeah, in his mind/view, that's the fight he finally finished - and that's how Chapel sees it as well when she gives her statement about the incident to La'an.
In M'Benga's view, the request for the general to leave was the only/last chance M'Benga was going to give to 'end' their fight, but Rahl didn't take it.
Re-watching the episode. The Ambassador's makeup, from the eyes up wouldn't be out of place in Discovery. The side view is very DSC Klingon.
The biggest difference is the use of natural human flesh and natural human flesh tones. I really like this version of the Klingons -- a nice combo of the TNG and DIS styles.
Makeup application and materials have changed tremendously since modern Trek began. Among other things, color goes on in lighter layers and is better blended - I don't remember, but Worf may have been created before airbrushing techniques were widely used. And prosthetics are created from plastics with much superior properties; look at the natural translucence of Spock's ears, as one example of the difference between silicones and gels and the once-ubiquitous latex foam.
Not a bad episode. But I didn't like that ending. He clearly killed a man looking for redemption who regretted what he did who wanted peace. M'Benga and Chapel lying and covering up a murder cause they think it was justified. I've not liked their characters this season. This was horrible and I bet these are no repercussions for either of them.
I'm not sure what they were going for.
I'm not sure what they were going for.
War changes even the best of us.
It's funny how easily M'Benga isn't believed but Rah's intentions are accepted at face value.
It's funny how easily M'Benga isn't believed but Rah's intentions are accepted at face value.
Was he looking for redemption or was he just trying to be certain his secret (which if found out would greatly affect his reputation in Federation circles) was safe?
I really love that in the end, the writers/producers left the encounter ambiguous WRT what the viewing audience saw/know.
The only characters who really know what actually occurred were M'Benga and Chapel.
No.
He killed a brutal, self-deluded coward without values who contrived to escape punishment at the cost of the lives of those loyal to him and achieve high status again in a different culture.
To do that, he lied about his behavior and culpabilty for what he'd done.
"Seeking redemption" without accepting the consequences of one's acts is unworthy.
Let's say I completely buy that he is still a violent criminal. It still doesn't make what they did do right.
Pike brushing it off and Chapel lying was very lame.
No matter who threw the first punch or who first thrust the d'ktagh M'Benga wasn't the one who'd spent years believing and pushing the lies about himself and thinking he was some great luminary on behalf of interstellar peace.
I wonder if we will ever see QuchHa' (TOS Klingons) appear on SNW? I would honestly love to see that.
Edit:
I admit I never even considered this. Rah could have intentionally started the fight so that M'Benga would kill him in honorable combat. Sort of a Klingon "suicide by cop".
And if that was the case, I suppose Rah would have gotten what he wished. Despite the mistakes he made in life, he died honorably, and thus gained admittance into Sto-Vo-Kor. Like Gowron.
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I find the TOS Klingons far too close to racial caricatures. I'm fine with never seeing them again.
Most Trek aliens are racial caricatures. It's one of the property's weaknesses.
And...?
After all we've seen, Christine standing by Joseph was pretty powerful. She's been my favorite SNW character for awhile.
And...?
After all we've seen, Christine standing by Joseph was pretty powerful. She's been my favorite SNW character for awhile.
I think there was enough there to make it very credible that Rah's belief in peace was more a means to an end (a veneer of honor, if not survival) than anything genuine. He would switch back and forth when referring to his own race as "them" and "we" depending on the characteristics of his people. And he is either an incredibly tone deaf diplomat or he was intentionally ignoring (or even relishing) his effect on everyone at the dinner (that was a very agressive grab on M'Benga's arm, especially given the doctor was on his way to see to a distressed patient). I think we sometimes tend to forget, after all the good will from Worf, that a lot of the Klingons really are right rotten bastards.
This was one of the better SNW episodes. Ambiguity, moral dilemmas, questions about how war changes a person.
If Klingons were real, that would be a very bigoted thing to say.
Most Klingons are decent people by their culture's value systems. Those value systems don't always align with Federation values. That doesn't make them "right rotten bastards," even if Rah is.
Strong, but deeply disturbing. And it further supports my "more than one M'Benga" hypothesis: in "A Private Little War, Chapel and M'Benga did NOT act like they knew each other well, and CERTAINLY not like old war buddies.
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