Star Trek/Stargate crossover possibility

[Herkimer Jitty]

Season 6 was the last season of SG-1 that I really enjoyed. I was being charitable to include to 7 and 8. Personally, I felt the show started getting too much the same around the post-Showtime years - every season became "OMG bad guys are killin us, but there's a superweapon that can stop em, let's look for it!", and the show started settling in and becoming less unpredictable.

Though, I guess that makes it perfect for a crossover with TNG around season 6, VOY around season 2 onwards, or the first two seasons of ENT.

Dur hur hur :trollface:

 

[BlobVanDam]

Everything after season 8 of SG-1.

Season 8 was dreadful, but season 9 and 10 are not bad at all if you give them a chance. I wasn't overly sold on S9 the first time around, but I appreciate it more and more each time I watch it.

Season 9 and 10 aren't bad if you go into them realizing that it's become quite a different show, but if you go in hoping it's the same, you'll be disappointed. I don't recall Season 8 being particularly dreadful, but it wasn't memorable either. The only thing I really remember about it is Moebius, which was a great episode, at least in my opinion.

We'll have to agree to disagree there, because to me Moebius is the number one reason I dislike season 8 (although Reckoning and Threads just before that were great eps).

I agree with you on S9/10. First time I saw them, I think I did have expectations of it being the same, which it didn't do. But once you accept Vala, Cam, and Landrey as substitutes, and just focus the episodes, I think they're great. I'd easily rank them with earlier seasons of Stargate. Not the best seasons, but far from the worst either.

 

[RavenCWG]

I am almost embarrassed to admit it, but sci-fi crossover stories have always been something of a guilty pleasure of mine. In recent years, however, my love for them has waned some, mostly due to my frustration and disgust with the fact that you can't hardly even mention the words "crossover story" anymore before someone tries to turn the whole discussion into one big, nasty, hate-filled "versus" debate. (Don't know what I'm talking about? Check out StarDestroyer.Net sometime.) Also, there just aren't that many really good crossover stories out there. Most of them are either little more than thinly veiled vs. propaganda in narrative form, or they are horribly cliché, poorly written fan wankery. And even of the ones that show potential, most are lacking in scope, scale or imagination. The key to a good crossover story, is that it needs to be a story WORTH telling. It needs to be a story with purpose, a story that presents both universes in the best possible light, a story that flows in a logical, well-thought-out way, and a story that brings something fresh and original to the table.

By the criteria that I have just laid out, some crossovers work better than others. Some shows lend themselves far more naturally to crossovers then do others. Stargate, unfortunately, is not one of those. Stargate's greatest strength, at least originally, was that it was grounded in the "real" world. It was not set "Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away" nor hundreds of years in the future; instead it was about people from the here and now, people who worked for the United States Air Force, lived in Colorado Springs, CO, who in their off hours would go home and throw back a few cold ones while watching The Simpsons (or perhaps another TV show like Star Trek or a movie like Star Wars). My point is, in the world of Stargate, Star Trek and Star Wars exist solely as works of fiction, and have been specifically mentioned numerous times as such. For me, this pretty much excludes any possibility of a believable Star Trek/Stargate crossover, except perhaps as a dream sequence. Maybe Jack could fall asleep on his couch while watching a TNG episode on TV, and then have a really weird dream where he and his team somehow meets up with the crew of the Enterprise. It’s a bit cliché, but it could work if written well.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

For me, this pretty much excludes any possibility of a believable Star Trek/Stargate crossover, except perhaps as a dream sequence. Maybe Jack could fall asleep on his couch while watching a TNG episode on TV, and then have a really weird dream where he and his team somehow meets up with the crew of the Enterprise. It’s a bit cliché, but it could work if written well.

Not necessarily. The canon of both series has dealt with time travel and different quantum realities. Combine the two ideas and voilà. The idea of different quantum realities is based on Dr. Richard Feynmann's proposed theory of the 'Sum over histories' stating that a particle would not have a single history or path in space-time, but would instead follow every possible path. This leads to the idea (in both canons) that every occurrence and outcome that could exist does exist in different quantum realities, realities that become increasingly more divergent. In Divergences, my co-author and I chose the ancient myth of Lemuria as the initial point of divergence, hence, the title of the story.

Is it 'fan wankery?' Maybe, but that could be said of all fan fiction and fan productions.

The key to a good crossover story, is that it needs to be a story WORTH telling. It needs to be a story with purpose, a story that presents both universes in the best possible light, a story that flows in a logical, well-thought-out way, and a story that brings something fresh and original to the table.

Funny thing on FF.net one of the critiques the story received was that it was an interesting adventure tale but too short on the 'meet and greet' aspects. The 'fan wankery.'

Welcome to the board!

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[BlobVanDam]

I just had a thought on the whole Star Trek existing in the SG universe.
There was a TV show based on SG-1 within SG-1, so that could be extended to include Star Trek too. Include Marty somehow or something.

Yes, it's still terribly fan wanky, but it's an in if anybody really wanted to bother to pursue it.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Everything after Atlantis ended

Fixed that for you.

Fixed

To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen anything come out of Stargate since about SG-1's 4th episode without feeling nauseous and enraged. I actually forced myself to sit through SG-1's entire first and second seasons last summer, just to make sure I was giving it a fair chance; by the time I was done, I wanted to kill myself.

Combine Stargate with Star Trek?

Just say no.

 

[RavenCWG]

Welcome to the board!

Thanks Whoa Nellie! And I hope you don't think that I was criticizing your story specifically, as that certainly was not my intention. In fact, I haven't yet had a chance to read it...but I plan on doing so really soon.

Not necessarily. The canon of both series has dealt with time travel and different quantum realities. Combine the two ideas and voilà. The idea of different quantum realities is based on Dr. Richard Feynmann's proposed theory of the 'Sum over histories' stating that a particle would not have a single history or path in space-time, but would instead follow every possible path. This leads to the idea (in both canons) that every occurrence and outcome that could exist does exist in different quantum realities, realities that become increasingly more divergent. In Divergences, my co-author and I chose the ancient myth of Lemuria as the initial point of divergence, hence, the title of the story.

Is it 'fan wankery?' Maybe, but that could be said of all fan fiction and fan productions.

I agree that alternate timelines can be a useful tool when writing crossover stories. If used wisely, they can be quite effective and thought-provoking. Certainly “Mirror, Mirror”, “Yesterday’s Enterprise” and “Parallels” are three of my favorite Star Trek episodes. But that said, they have also become one of the most abused, and over used plot devices in Science Fiction. Furthermore, there are rules and limitations to using alternate timelines; there are some things you can change, and there are some things you can not. Let’s take the new Star Trek movie for example. JJ Abrams asserts that the events of the movie are the result of an alternate timeline created by Nero's traveling into the past and changing history; however assuming a simple divergent timeline from that moment, can not explain away all of the logical and factual errors in that movie. (for a rather lengthy list of inconsistencies see here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/inconsistencies-trekxi.htm ) Some things, such as Delta Vega suddenly being a Vulcan moon instead of a mining planet hundreds of light years away or Vulcan having the wrong color sky, are simply not things that could in anyway be the result of Nero changing the timeline.

So bringing this back to the idea of a Star Trek/Stargate crossover, using the alternate timeline idea to bring the two shows together doesn’t really work. As I pointed out before, Star Trek is specifically stated in Stargate as being a TV show (i.e. a work of fiction), and there is simply no divergent timeline theory which could possibly justify how the exact events and characters from a fictional show could become real people and real events. Your only option, therefore, would be to choose to simply ignore all references to Star Trek in Stargate altogether. But personally, I think that violates the integrity and intent of the show.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Actually, T'Pol said Vulcan "sometimes" had a blue sky in an early Enterprise episode. And Delta Vega was meant to be a cute name drop - and considering the number of towns and cites on Earth today that share names, I don't have a problem with an icy, monster-filled planet in the Vulcan system doing the same with a barren, uninhabited world at the galactic rim.

None of the mistakes or retcons in prior Star Treks (and there are hundreds - just look at the continuity errors thread) can be explained via time tampering or any other means either - we're supposed to suspend our disbelief, just like when Saavik or Cochrane were recast and also underwent total personality changes in STIII and FC. Vulcan, San Francisco and the Enterprise were "recast" just as Kirk and Spock were.

Fans would simply be expected to suspend disbelief a little more if ST and SG crossed over. I've seen Aliens vs Predator vs Batman and even Star Trek vs Babylon 5 crossover fan films that proved such things can work.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

Thanks Whoa Nellie!

You're welcome.

And I hope you don't think that I was criticizing your story specifically, as that certainly was not my intention. In fact, I haven't yet had a chance to read it...but I plan on doing so really soon.

No, not at all.

I hope you enjoy the story. While writing fan fictions, I have learned to never say never. I once swore I'd never do a crossover for many reasons, including some that you mentioned. However, certain ideas just would not go away (specifically the line about Jack trading Daniel for Vash).

Your only option, therefore, would be to choose to simply ignore all references to Star Trek in Stargate altogether.

That's precisely how I handled it. Taking a concept from one of my favorite producer/directors Peter DeLuise, I hung a lantern on it by having O'Neill mention that Picard looked awful familiar somehow and Daniel replying that maybe Jack has run across their universe's version of Picard somewhere. It is a slight nudge, nudge, wink, wink to the reader.

Fans would simply be expected to suspend disbelief a little more if ST and SG crossed over. I've seen Aliens vs Predator vs Batman and even Star Trek vs Babylon 5 crossover fan films that proved such things can work.

Exactly! I think anyone actually searching for crossovers is already prepared to do that.

If TPTB can get away with Star Trek TNG/ Xmen pro-novel crossover for money, I can get away with this for just grins.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie