Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Gen

[cardinal biggles]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Mr J said:
The problem with the age old argument about tech v.s. era is that at the end of the day the fictional 'level' of the tech is fairly meaningless in the Star Trek universe. To the viewer, dramatically it makes no difference if the ship has to push the engines to warp 5 to travel 5 light years in 6 minutes than if the ship has to push the transverse warp time engines to factor 16 to travel 7000 light years in 6 minutes. It also doesn't really matter if the ship is a fully-armed uber battleship or a lightly freighter, because the enemy will always be written as having the upper hand when the writers need them to.
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IMO, TNG did no succeed because it was set in a different century. Indeed, the common elements were pretty much identical to TOS - super fast engines, laser guns and teleporters. Things having to happen in a fixed amount of time to create tension. All they really changed were the numbers and the speeds of the gizmos and then used them in pretty much the same way. What set it apart from TOS however was that tonally, visually (to an extent, at least) and the type of stories told were different to TOS but still retained the recognizable elements of Star Trek.
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To that end, when it is set is fairly redundant IMO. Any era would work equally well as long as it has good writers willing to do something new with the franchise. 25th century might be interesting from a fan perspective in terms of the continuity and moving forward, but it could also theoretically serve as a nice blank canvas time period for them to create something very different with the franchise while appeasing the fans. Or, they could just overwrite the continuity and set it in the 24th century with Kirk fighting the Borg who have allied themselves with Spock the evil Vulcan. Either way, good writing is more the key than the basic concept IMO.

Quoted for truth.

Again, people... all the wonderful, amazing, mind-blowing, whiz-bang Jesus-Is-Magic technobabble in the world won't make this a good show or a bad show. The stories and the characters have to be intelligent, well-crafted, and three-dimensional for people to want to tune in after the first episode.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Tech is just the tools used by the characters to accomplish the plots the writers create. Tech doesn't really mean anything. The 24th century was almost exactly the same as the 23rd. The characters had different attitudes

 

[Michael_Kroh]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Tech doesn't really mean anything.

Bingo.

Technobabble-laden stories do not stand the test of time.

I now find a full third of TNG re-runs unwatchable, thanks to the Flanders-esque interpertation of scientific fads and trends from fifteen years past.

"Captain, if we don't technobabble the technobabble, the technobabble will babble-babble the universe as we know it!! Ooogly-Doogly!"


Honestly, this is how many Trek scripts are written.


SCIENCE OFFICER

Captain, we have a (tech problem.)


CAPTAIN (nods)

Hm. Have the Chief Engineer perform a (tech solution) so we can get to the bottom of this matter.



Sorry for the rant, folks.

 

[brian lackey]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Hey Deks, Here's an idea for Version 3 of the Quantum Slipstream Drive: Not only the QSD uses Borg Enhancements like the Borg-inspired Transwarp Coil but also uses a Sikarian Space-Fold(Federation Version) Technology.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Michael_Kroh said:

Tech doesn't really mean anything.

Bingo.

Technobabble-laden stories do not stand the test of time.

I now find a full third of TNG re-runs unwatchable, thanks to the Flanders-esque interpertation of scientific fads and trends from fifteen years past.

"Captain, if we don't technobabble the technobabble, the technobabble will babble-babble the universe as we know it!! Ooogly-Doogly!"


Honestly, this is how many Trek scripts are written.


SCIENCE OFFICER

Captain, we have a (tech problem.)


CAPTAIN (nods)

Hm. Have the Chief Engineer perform a (tech solution) so we can get to the bottom of this matter.



Sorry for the rant, folks.

I agree, sort of. Tech stuff is actually filler. It sounds inpressive but it's not. If you've ever seen Apollo 13, the real astronauts never talked that way. They were solving a very technical problem (actually, a series of them), yet they never do the Treknobabble thing. They tell Houston that the "master alarm" went off, and it stopped there. Had it been a Trek episode, 5 minutes would have been spent explaining the problem, another 10 minutes explaining the solution (maybe another short scene in which the entire crew has a meeting discussing the problem). Yet it doesn't add anything. You've taken something that only needed a few minutes of dialog and turned it into 15-20 minutes of uninterrupted talk.

I think it's better the way Apollo 13 handled the technical problems. Less is more in that case, because instead of trying to figure out what Jordi's talking about, you end up hoping that he knows what he's doing.

++++++++++++++

Actually, what I'd do is try to have consequences to every decision that they make. It shouldn't be an easy answer and everything goes on affair. Making a bad choice could mean losing something or someone valuable. If the captain does something that an alien race finds evil and offensive, they shouldn't be able to "forgive and forget" by the end of a two parter. Sometimes the moral choice would mean that bad consequences follow.

I think the biggest problem is that they've been stuck on the idea that heros have character shields, that the captains are infalible, and that every story needs a happy ending. I think they need to say something about the real world as well, just so long as it isn't going to devolve into "Star Trek: After School Special" where Tasha informs us that we should "just say No".

 

[Lateralus]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

When having heard originally that Enterprise was going to be a prequel, I was more than a little miffed.

Especially being the DS9 fan that I am.

Whether or not you appreciate DS9 is irrelevant. The story arc of the show did so much to change the Alpha Quadrant and The Federation specifically, that you have to think exploring the aftermath would have been a playground for any writer.

And then having heard the details of XI, I was as miffed as I was about Enterprise.

I tend to think that even 50 years forward is too far ahead for a potential 6th series. I'd say on the order of 10.

10 years will have provided enough time for the immediate after effects of the Dominion War to have died down, so as note to bore anybody. But will still allow for the exploration of stories immediately related to it. ie; Cardassian's potential Federation membership, the downfall of the Klingon Empire, and the 'Cold War' between the Romulans and The Federation.

 

[CaptainDonovin]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Well in the books that havee been coming out lately there seems to be a hint of problems with the Tholians (going by memory) and the Rommies are up to their pointed ears in problems, there are two ideas for a series that could be set in the near future of Trek (late 24th early 25th centuries) where the Federation has to deal with a full blown Romulan civil war on one side and an increased threat from the Tholians, a race we know little about even after nearly 40 years, and still try to expand their knowledge of the galaxy. That plus a possible Cardassia joining the UFP and mixed feelings there, could be interesting.

As LiChiu said, I'd love a diverse crew as well, perhaps have a bit of the old, an Andorian and Tellerite as main characters, with some of the TNG - VOY era species, maybe even a Xenexian (New Frontiers novels).

 

[Balthier the Great]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

I dunno, I think you'd have to be careful about how much technology they get for the next ship. If you have to break half of the ship for them to have any difficulty solving a problem, it's gonna be hard to pull off a series. 100 years is too far IMO, because the technology would be so advanced that the idea of the crew being in danger is a joke.

Besides, considering the EMH, what makes you think that in 100 years, the entire crew won't be holographic?

 

[voss749]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Quantum slipstream? Maybe but with limitations...like a recharge time(Use it and It takes a week to recharge the system...convenient huh?)

The captains have been getting more PC with every series...why not have your captain be a charming rogue with a heart of gold in the Rhett Butler tradition.

 

[CaptainDonovin]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

^ The captains were PC but did slip a bit when pushed. Sisko hid the fact that they used a fake data rod to get the Romulans into the war on the Federation/Klingon side (and likely kept the real cause of Vreenak's death to himself) and Archer was less than PC at times in the Expance. It was nice to see they were still human in those instances.

 

[originalbob]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

I like the idea of a series 6 set 100 years after TNG-only thing is, looking at historical parallels,neither the Roman or British Empires managed to last as long as the federation at this point. The galaxy is a big place, and assuming continuous expansion and long lines of communication, the Federation that we know and love will be too big to operate as one entity.Scope perhaps for a series dealing with the beginnings of a collapse of the federation, coupled with a massive incursion by the borg seeking to exploit the federation's weakness? it's happened before in history- it'll happen again.Would be a lot of stories to be told around the fight against the borg and the fight against the fall of darkness across the galaxy....

 

[Sean_McCormick]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Some nice ideas in this thread...

my take, which provides a "back to the basics"-approach and a new playing-field:

100- to 150 years post TNG/DS9/VOY,

a massive ship (think of it as a starbase with engines) with a new type of engine (new tech, very huge and power-intensive) that enable it to travel to neighbouring galaxies, this ship carries five to ten smaller (200-400 m length) explorer-vessels with conventional engines.

The starport-vessel travels to another galaxy and sets up there as starbase, then the smaller vessels go from there exploring the galaxy on half to one year trips.

The "hero-ship" would be one of the smaller explorers.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

I like the idea of setting it in the future...don't think we are going to get any more 24th century on screen adventures anyways. Although I would take it one step further and use the Andromeda idea of a declining or already broken Federation. The only thing different is that Starfleet still exists but they're now a single entity and the galaxy has turned their backs on Starfleet since they are partially blamed for the downfall of the Federation by many former member species.

I'm toying with the idea of not using a crew right away but instead a single person who is searching the galaxy for other like minded indivuals who share his idealistic approach on the Federation and is motivated by what he or she read in school about the Golden Age. We would touch on the other galactic powers such as the Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians, etc to see where they are at this stage. But ultimately its about one person's desire to rebuild what was shattered. We will learn over the course of the first season what was responsible for the Federation's ultimate downfall and why Starfleet is so hated. I was also toying with the possibility of having the Romulans be the galaxy's major power in a sort of Revenge of the Sith style type ploy but maybe it might be better story telling to leave some things bleak and unknown.

 

[voss749]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Idealistic? Yes but not PC idealistic or sappy idealistic.
Was Kirk idealistic...yes but he still got into fistfights and bedded many an alien lady.

The one thing the people who say "I dont want to see a fall of the federation" never answer is that even the most noble civilizations we have ever known eventually fall or at the very least experience setbacks or changes that end a certain period. Any reference to anything that happens beyond the
series "now" is simply one possible future.

 

[nickyboy]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

We need Ron Moore to do this show, he would know what to do.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

The Problem with using the Andromeda-concept is, that it has been done. The basic concept was thought up by GR, but he surely left many details to be fleshed out. Any even superficial similarity beyond GR's original concept to the existing show might lead to an lawsuit from the IP-holders of that show, i am pretty sure that CBS does not want to enter that legal minefield.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

The Andromeda concept was indeed already used yes...but I would say poorly and according to RHW not the way he was going to execute it...go read his interesting "Coda". This uses the concept but in the Star Trek universe...the post above is a rough pretty much on the fly summary of what my proposal is. The only thing from Andromeda I took is the concept of a person (only this one isn't time lost as Dylan was) looking to rebuild a shattered institution. The situation in my proposal is actually more bleak than it was in Andromeda.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Sean_McCormick said:
The Problem with using the Andromeda-concept is, that it has been done. The basic concept was thought up by GR, but he surely left many details to be fleshed out. Any even superficial similarity beyond GR's original concept to the existing show might lead to an lawsuit from the IP-holders of that show, i am pretty sure that CBS does not want to enter that legal minefield.

What about something a little more like the Three Kingdoms in China or some kind of feudal system. Have everything carved up by warlords of some type all "bravely fighting to restore the Federation", yet every last one of them sees themself as the new leadership.

The Sengoku Period sounds pretty interesting. For one thing, soldiering is a professional class -- you're a son or daughter of a Samurai, you get to become one. I don't know if starfleet would be nearly as idealistic if it was seen as a hereditary office controlled by warlords. Another thing is that the emperor always existed -- he had no power whatsoever, but he existed. So I could see how you could have a small "Federation Council" on Earth that really has no power, but everyone pretends to be loyal to. They all want to restore the Fed with themselves as the new power.

I don't think that's Andromeda exactly. My sense was that Hunt is the only one trying to restore the commonwealth. Having other people fighting for their version of federation would sorta make it more about the ideals of the federation anyway -- Why does this one guy deserve to set up the new Federation?

For my money, anybody willing to fight for power probably doesn't deserve it.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

Well all of the major Alpha Quadrant powers are shadows of their former selfs in the future. I know that this probably goes against some kind of canon since we know from ENT and VOY that the Federation exists in some form since they have timeships around. However that being said I like the idea of the Federation being at its peak during the time of Nemesis and falling a hundred years hence. Starfleet is struggling to stay together while feared and despised by most of the galaxy. Its an almost Mirror Universe state of being...

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Re: Star Trek Series 6 idea : set it 100 years after Next Ge

I think one of the positives of DS9 was the introduction of the Cardassians plus the Dominion and we got to see more of the Breen, Romulans and Klingons. Thats what a good series needs, we need to see more of the current races and get introduced to new different and yet interesting civilisations.
Theres also no point in keeping the federation at the same technololgy level, we want to see new technologys and ships.

I enjoyed Enterprise because they were going boldly where no one has gone before, they were meeting new races etc and it was interesting to see, so a good series needs to be based on this idea also.