Star Trek: Renegades
- Thread starter Danlav05
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I don't even know where I am anymore. Tuesday? Close enough. Anyway, yeah, the point still stands. The best artist in the world can't create a wall sized Mona Lisa if he or she's only got enough cash in the budget to make stick figures on a postcard.
This is getting really ridiculous. What else can you from a production side then hire the same people that worked on the original show?
Besides, of course Soval looked different! Because Gary Graham is now 14 years older as when Enterprise started - and he is playing an older Soval!
Besides, of course Soval looked different! Because Gary Graham is now 14 years older as when Enterprise started - and he is playing an older Soval!
Perhaps we need a new thread for Axanar discussion, because we seem to be a tad off the beaten track here. 
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Also, some of us may be getting understandably confused about which team member is supposed to be on which production (since Gary Graham has been in both, this is getting especially tricky). 
I finally watched it yesterday. I enjoyed it. I am curious to see the direction it takes.
I just watched it yesterday as well. Ermmm...wow. Not the worst I've seen. Certainly not the best. Quite a bit of it I can explain away in my mind (I have the gift of EXTREME suspension of disbelief) as I've seen enough Trek to have been pre-programmed towards that level of dialog structure and histrionics. Some of the CG was surprisingly excellent, others (like the head bad guy walking to his ship in the beginning at a different angle than how the landed ship itself was oriented) were just unwatchable. All technical and writing oddities aside, something really stuck in my craw...
Captain Alvarez of the USS Archer. Many people here thought he was quite good and could carry a series on his own. What blew my mind was that not only did he fire on another vessel preemptively before being fired upon, he did it in TWO different engagements during the course of the show! One time actually even complaining "nobody fires on my ship and gets away with it!" when HE FIRED FIRST!!! Go back and watch it if you don't believe me - this is what happened, and I think the man for whom that ship was named would be disgusted by that behavior from a ship's captain.
Now, I'm one of those that believes that good drama and conflict makes for a good story. I don't shy away from a more darkly-hued plot just because it might conflict with "Gene's Vision". I personally think that Sacred Cow left the building decades ago. But a Starfleet commander firing first - TWICE - within the span of an hour and then getting righteously indignant about it all...well...holy shit, that goes beyond the pale, even for me. I don't know why that got to me so much, but for some reason it did.
Aside from that, it was a serviceable film. I loved seeing Koenig and Russ again in their roles. I do think they did a really good job. The guy who played Icheb was surprisingly good and I loved how S31 did a number on him when he returned with Voyager. Very believable and a great back-story.
Nobody should be under any illusions, however, about this effort being picked up by CBS. I just cannot see it happening - too many rough edges. It would be a jagged little pill for them to swallow.
Captain Alvarez of the USS Archer. Many people here thought he was quite good and could carry a series on his own. What blew my mind was that not only did he fire on another vessel preemptively before being fired upon, he did it in TWO different engagements during the course of the show! One time actually even complaining "nobody fires on my ship and gets away with it!" when HE FIRED FIRST!!! Go back and watch it if you don't believe me - this is what happened, and I think the man for whom that ship was named would be disgusted by that behavior from a ship's captain.
Now, I'm one of those that believes that good drama and conflict makes for a good story. I don't shy away from a more darkly-hued plot just because it might conflict with "Gene's Vision". I personally think that Sacred Cow left the building decades ago. But a Starfleet commander firing first - TWICE - within the span of an hour and then getting righteously indignant about it all...well...holy shit, that goes beyond the pale, even for me. I don't know why that got to me so much, but for some reason it did.
Aside from that, it was a serviceable film. I loved seeing Koenig and Russ again in their roles. I do think they did a really good job. The guy who played Icheb was surprisingly good and I loved how S31 did a number on him when he returned with Voyager. Very believable and a great back-story.
Nobody should be under any illusions, however, about this effort being picked up by CBS. I just cannot see it happening - too many rough edges. It would be a jagged little pill for them to swallow.
I agree. Nemec was servicable in the role, but the character (as written) was far from what we've come to expect in the Starfleet hero captains we've known so far. There's a level of ineptitude at play (largely due to the lackluster script and characterization) that can't be ignored with his character.
There is also the bum note of "I'll get a medal for this!" - I just cannot picture a Starfleet captain saying this over an open comm (well except for Stiles and he was *suppose* to an ass-hole).
The other thing I noticed on rewatch of that scene is that Nemec is another person who is wearing a uniform more fitting for sleeping in.
Oh, yes! I forgot about that line, thank you for reminding me. I cringed when I heard it. Yes, not only was he an unprofessional and bloodthirsty commander, he was an unapologetic glory hound - pretty much the embodiment of everything a Starfleet commander should not aspire to be. I would definitely not watch a series about such a five-star douche nozzle who should never have graduated from the Academy. His XO should have had him escorted to the brig after the first catastrophe - end of his story.
I thought it was implied that Alvarez was talking about a past engagement with the Icarus. That why he was firing on the ship.
Agreed on both points. I mean, picture Picard or Sisko saying those lines. It just doesn't work, given what we're supposed to know and understand about the kinds of people that are Starfleet captains.
And yes, after the cadre of script editors they will hopefully engage, Renegades will hopefully reconsider those pajama uniforms.
The problem is, Alvarez removed all objectivity and professionalism from the scenario by making it personal. The whole "nobody fires on my ship" attitude is a little too "Captain Blood" for 24th century command protocol. I doubt that would have flown much in the 23rd, even by Kirkian standards.
I thought it was implied that Alvarez was talking about a past engagement with the Icarus. That why he was firing on the ship.
And to be fair, yes, Kirk fired on the Bird of Prey first in TSFS, which I remember caused a bit of a fan uproar from the Roddenberry traditionalists, but I think most people would have viewed the context of that engagement with the potential loss of an existing starship (Grissom) and crew, plus the existence of an enemy vessel deep inside claimed Federation space might have lent itself to the action's credulity.
But Alvarez had a little too much Ahab in him, with Icarus being his White Whale. And Kirk was NEVER a medal collector, while he received his fair share.
At the risk of sounding "anecdotal", those who know veterans of foreign wars personally who have earned decorations of distinction generally did not seek such recognition. In some isolated cases, they might even consider what they did to earn that medal something that they were less-than-proud of doing. I found that more to be true of Vietnam vets, with whom I have had the most experience discussing the matter, but I'm sure there are those from every war who have felt that way.
Those who actively seek conflict and desire medals for it are genuinely frowned upon by pretty much everyone I've ever met in all branches of service.
^^^ YES! 
I thought it was implied that Alvarez was talking about a past engagement with the Icarus. That why he was firing on the ship.
Except in the first situation - he just fire two torpedoes before he has any idea who the cloaked ship is or what they are actually doing. He doesn't ask for any options from the crew, he just takes reckless and over the top action for no real reason.
Listen, we fire torpedoes and we do it right the Hell now. What do you think this is? Star Trek?
Thanks for the feedback, while I could explain the various reasons why things happened the way they did, its not worth going into. We strive to make the next episode even better. New designs are on the table for many things (even the uniforms, you guys love so much 
). The stories are being worked on and even some more seasoned Hollywood professionals coming on board to help us out.
). The stories are being worked on and even some more seasoned Hollywood professionals coming on board to help us out.Similar threads
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