Star Trek remastered- your opinions

[Outpost4]

But trevanian, this is not the first time we see the corridor outside of Engineering. The first time is earlier in the episode, when Kirk and Scotty are checking out the situation of the locked door. Following is a cap from that scene and you'll see the hallway is definitely grey. If you go to Trekcore and look at other caps from that scene, some of them have a blueish tint to them, which could definitely be the gels you mention, but the corridor isn't purple.

You can argue that Finneman used a purple gel for effect in this one scene and I can't argue with that. None of us can. He's dead and there are no records to state either way. Or you can argue, as you do, that they meant for the corridor to be purple and it was only used for this one shot. That's a tougher argument to make as other shots from the same episode don't back up this theory, but again, no one can argue against it. A much simpler argument is that the corridor was always meant to be grey. It shows that way in other shots in this same episode. It is grey in other episodes. But far be it from me to keep a Trekkie from getting out on a limb to make a point. That never happens here.

 

[Warped9]

I liked the "no beam" look as Scotty cut through the bulkhead. It really looked hi-tech.

 

[Outpost4]

Again, I can't argue with that. It happens to be one of the arguments I make as to why tractor beams shouldn't be seen, as they are in TNG and later Treks. The only thing I can say is I believe this is the only time in Star Trek we see a phaser function without a beam being shown (we see disruptors work without a beam in A Taste of Armageddon, a f/x shot that was also changed by CBS Digital). A mistake is the more logical conclusion.

It took me a while to find Capt.Mac's site again, but there is a much simpler argument for the purple wall in Engineering than Mr. Finneman meant it to be that way. The Star Trek- Behind the Scenes site makes it for me. Film stock as it ages goes dark and often purple. The remastering folks were just correcting for the age of the stock.

 

[alchemist]

Original:

Remastered:

An analysis of the tonality of the RGB channels in the original (non-remastered) shot strongly suggests a degradation of the cyan layer in the original film consistent with fade. Thus, it is my opinion that the original wall was grey.

That being said, bear in mind that all media fade, even the negatives from which the remastered episodes were struck. Thus, there is always some degree of "subjectiveness" in every restoration. For more details , see this article:
http://startrekhistory.com/restoration/article2.html

 

[Noname Given]

Again, I can't argue with that. It happens to be one of the arguments I make as to why tractor beams shouldn't be seen, as they are in TNG and later Treks. The only thing I can say is I believe this is the only time in Star Trek we see a phaser function without a beam being shown (we see disruptors work without a beam in A Taste of Armageddon, a f/x shot that was also changed by CBS Digital). A mistake is the more logical conclusion.

It took me a while to find Capt.Mac's site again, but there is a much simpler argument for the purple wall in Engineering than Mr. Finneman meant it to be that way. The Star Trek- Behind the Scenes site makes it for me. Film stock as it ages goes dark and often purple. The remastering folks were just correcting for the age of the stock.

Actually, in The Gallileo Seven I think there's a quick shot of Mr. Scott using the Phaser with no beam when he's transfering their energy to use as an alternate power source for the Shuttlecraft - but that's probably splitting hairs.

 

[trevanian]

Original:

Remastered:

An analysis of the tonality of the RGB channels in the original (non-remastered) shot strongly suggests a degradation of the cyan layer in the original film consistent with fade. Thus, it is my opinion that the original wall was grey.

That being said, bear in mind that all media fade, even the negatives from which the remastered episodes were struck. Thus, there is always some degree of "subjectiveness" in every restoration. For more details , see this article:
http://startrekhistory.com/restoration/article2.html

The degradation thing is interesting, because JAWS faded to pink, not purple. Trek's 35mm masters were well-preserved as I recall, but certainly not exempt from fading, so maybe you're right about the color. I know he used color pretty creatively on the briefing room walls, and that it changed all the time there, but that the main color treatments were usually reserved for making the planetscapes look a bit different.

 

[Maurice]

I think the remastered stuff is a very mixed bag. Some of the new effects are nice, some are embarrassingly Playstation 2 in quality. The animators have a problem making the ship feel big, nut really having a handle on how to animate the ship when it's maneuvering to make it feel like it's massive. I know lots of people loved the remastered Doomsday machine, but I thought the energy beams in that one were really pretty terrible. The Planter killer's bvlast looked like a frame thrower, not the kind of fcroce beam you'd expect to blow/cut planets apart. And the "boom" effect when the Planet Killer gets snuffed...it looked like it was spitting up dark blue water. Bleh.

 

[alchemist]

The degradation thing is interesting, because JAWS faded to pink, not purple. Trek's 35mm masters were well-preserved as I recall, but certainly not exempt from fading, so maybe you're right about the color. I know he used color pretty creatively on the briefing room walls, and that it changed all the time there, but that the main color treatments were usually reserved for making the planetscapes look a bit different.

I agree, I think Finnerman was a master at the use of lighting, colored and otherwise. I particular like the use of his key lights on Shatner.

The fading of the Jaws print to pink is consistent with the chemistry of the degradation of the film from that era, and it sounds like Jaws was more faded than Trek when you compared the two. If you'll indulge me...

As you know, the least stable emulsion layer of film from that time was the cyan layer. The next least stable layer was the yellow followed then by the magenta (which is/was pretty stable). Recall that cyan is comprised of blue and green (in additive color), yellow is comprised of red and green, and magenta is comprised of blue and red. Well, it turns out that if you look at the fading of the cyan layer in more detail, it’s actually the green portion that fades the fastest, followed then by the blue. So, as time goes by, the film first loses it green tones which make it appear more purple (red plus blue). Then, as even more time goes by and more fading occurs, the film – which has already lost a lot of its green – starts losing its blue making it appear red. And pink is just faded red (or red diluted a bit with magenta).

Of course, different film stocks with different chemistries can fade somewhat differently. But the above is a good approximation of the fading of the film stocks used for the positive prints in the Trek series.

 

[Outpost4]

I agree with DS9Sega as to The Doomsday Machine. While the remastered Constellation looked excellent (it could hardly look worse), the Enterprise was flying around the Planet Killer like a WWII fighter on a strafing run.

I was very leary of the remastering initially, and rejected the idea of "improvements" like Norman's stomach and Sulu's chronometer. When I saw the finished product, I moved to luke warm and willing to accept these changes. Most of them were done very well and respectfully. It took getting the HD DVD discs for me to really get on board. The Enterprise looked (mostly) great in high definition. You get a definite feel for that in the HD screen caps on TrekCore.

I put these following sequences together for my own enjoyment, using the HD screen caps from TrekCore. Both are from Arena. The 700x525 images are really just thumbnails. Click on the larger versions to get the full resolution of 2880x2160. The torpedo launch is simply the screen caps in sequence. I had to manipulate the pictures of the phasers firing to get them right. I didn't change the CGI work or the effects themselves, but instead modified the position of the Enterprise and the stars. There was too much time between the caps and initially the Big E and the background both looked goofy tied together in this tight order.

Hi-Res Version - click here

High Res Version - click here

 

[Toban Kal]

Even if they did nothing else but add that reflection off the hull the whole remastered series would be worth it.
It's just beautiful to see.

 

[QuasarVM]

I agree. It's a mixed bag.

The episodes I was disappointed in with regard to new FX were --

1. The Ultimate Computer
2. Errand of Mercy
3. Elaan of Troyius
4. The Enterprise Incident

I did NOT like the Klingon ship model they used in the remaster...or the way they animated it.

And it may not be exactly like what they had in TOS originally but I wish they had used the K'tinga class Klingon ship from Trials and Tribbleations...

 

[ACE]

The reports of Jerry's death have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[trevanian]

The degradation thing is interesting, because JAWS faded to pink, not purple. Trek's 35mm masters were well-preserved as I recall, but certainly not exempt from fading, so maybe you're right about the color. I know he used color pretty creatively on the briefing room walls, and that it changed all the time there, but that the main color treatments were usually reserved for making the planetscapes look a bit different.

I agree, I think Finnerman was a master at the use of lighting, colored and otherwise. I particular like the use of his key lights on Shatner.

The fading of the Jaws print to pink is consistent with the chemistry of the degradation of the film from that era, and it sounds like Jaws was more faded than Trek when you compared the two. If you'll indulge me...

As you know, the least stable emulsion layer of film from that time was the cyan layer. The next least stable layer was the yellow followed then by the magenta (which is/was pretty stable). Recall that cyan is comprised of blue and green (in additive color), yellow is comprised of red and green, and magenta is comprised of blue and red. Well, it turns out that if you look at the fading of the cyan layer in more detail, it’s actually the green portion that fades the fastest, followed then by the blue. So, as time goes by, the film first loses it green tones which make it appear more purple (red plus blue). Then, as even more time goes by and more fading occurs, the film – which has already lost a lot of its green – starts losing its blue making it appear red. And pink is just faded red (or red diluted a bit with magenta).

Of course, different film stocks with different chemistries can fade somewhat differently. But the above is a good approximation of the fading of the film stocks used for the positive prints in the Trek series.

That is interesting stuff I should have probably already known, since I write about cinematography. Then again, I'm color-blind, so I probably couldn't recognize some of this except that it would look different somehow. I'm wondering if the film speed rating has anything to do with the fading, since TREK and most other stuff of that time was very fine-grain slow stock (50 asa) whereas in the 70s crews started switching to faster grainier film in many instances to take advantage of available light.

 

[Outpost4]

The reports of Jerry's death have been greatly exaggerated.

My error, and my apologies to Mr. Finnerman and his family.

 

[Start Wreck]

Some of the new effects don't seem to correspond to what's happening, or stated to be happening. It's a minor thing, but I recently watched The Immunity Syndrome, and when they first see the dark void on the screen, it's full size. Then Kirk gives the command to magnify it, and suddenly everyone acts as if they can see it clearly now, when it appears the same size as it did. I don't recall how it originally looked, but it struck me as odd.

(Generally, though, the remastering of this episode improves it a lot. I liked seeing the Enterprise travelling through the cloudy protoplasm.)

 

[Hambone]

Just like with the "original" un-re-mastered episodes, the remastered ones are a mixed bag. I think the remastered ones "hit" more than they "miss", and I'm enjoying watching the episodes again.

Matt Jeffries himself was "sold" on the remastered version. That's good enough for me!

 

[Nero's Shadow]

I must say the remastered TOS is very well done the enterprise looks so real and planets look good as well . Can,t wait 2 get the 2nd and 3rd seasons on blue ray .

 

[Green Shirt]

I liked the "no beam" look as Scotty cut through the bulkhead. It really looked hi-tech.

Me too. I took it to be a cutting beam, so I accepted it being invisible without questioning it.

 

[Kelso]

Despite my nostalgic attachment to the original versions... the remastered episodes are definitely a lot of fun to watch. That alone makes the whole enterprise worthwhile to me.

I hope to own both versions, some day.

 

[Chrisisall]

http://www.livevideo.com/video/spockboy/CDDCCB2CDE5949B6AEBF0BC2AF8632EE/gammans-enteprise.aspx

That's REALLY beautiful work.

I must say the remastered TOS is very well done the enterprise looks so real and planets look good as well . Can,t wait 2 get the 2nd and 3rd seasons on blue ray .

I have them on regular old DVD, and I'm thrilled with nearly ep.