Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[Longinus]

The idea that the creators sat down and said, "Let's make a mediocre Star Trek show," is surely a very silly and unlikely possibility, no?

I'm pretty sure that this was the premise of Voyager and in its better episodes they occasionally even reached it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Um, the elaborate planet encompassing force field and thousands of kill sats?!

And with Romulus going bang, we had not only its capital destroyed but major population hub and economic engine gone: the Romulan Star Empire was highly racist and quasi-totalitarian, the top down chain of command grinds to a halt, the bulk of its fleet gets mangled by civil wars and rivals like the Klingons or Breen (and the myriad races they've enslaved all rise up in rebellion).

More than that. The safe zone for a supernova starts at 50 ly. I assume that many planets the Romulans conquered, colonized or mined would still need evacuation for decades.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm pretty sure that this was the premise of Voyager and in its better episodes they occasionally even reached it.

Even if it wasn't the premise they sure as hell kept hitting that target.

 

[XCV330]

Even iff it wasn't the premise they sure as hell kept hitting that target.

They had their high points. Like when we learned that a young borg drone named Icheb was going to be ok, and had a life worth living and suddenly you realized.. the future was probably going to be ok.


Naomi RUN!!!!!

 

[fireproof78]

They had their high points. Like when we learned that a young borg drone named Icheb was going to be ok, and had a life worth living and suddenly you realized.. the future was probably going to be ok.


Naomi RUN!!!!!

Naomi's fine. They'll just grabbed her from another quantum copy like they got the last one.

 

[Terok Nor]

They had their high points. Like when we learned that a young borg drone named Icheb was going to be ok, and had a life worth living and suddenly you realized.. the future was probably going to be ok.


Naomi RUN!!!!!

Mezoti and the twins were eaten alive minutes after leaving Voyager.

 

[KJY]

That's not accurate at all. For starters, we have the conflict of the Dominion War, which is referenced in "Insurrection." The Federation is becoming more desperate for allies, indicating all is not well within.

Picard takes place more than 20 years after the Dominion War which, if I'm not mistaken, was still going on during Insurrection. The conflict Insurrection was about a small group of settlers being an obstacle to a new source of energy with enormous implications for billions of people. Regardless of your personal stance on the issue, I can imagine a conflict over it.

Then you have the Romulan conflict with Shinzon. Despite the Romulans being an ally in the Dominion War that doesn't mean that they would be always be so. The US and Britain were allies with Stalin, with leaders being known famously known as "The Big 3" (FDR, Churchill and Stalin). I would suggest reading up on post war relations between those three powers (hint: it got rather chilly). The idea that several centuries of hostilities would be removed by a mutual enemy is naive, at best.

I've been avoiding Nemesis because I hear it's awful. In any case the Romulans wouldn't be a credible threat to the Federation after their star exploded no matter how many the Federation managed to save. Letting them die just seems spiteful.

Finally, you do have the Federation willing to dedicate assets to the Romulan cause, until there is another attack. Now, with the above conflicts cited, the Dominion War being very costly in terms of personnel, ships and supplies, and then another attack and I can quite imagine the Federation going, "We can't spare it." Hell, Sisko faced a similar argument for attacking a high profile target during the Dominion War.

I seem to recall the show stating that the secession threats happened before the attack on the shipyards, but I could be wrong, and the Dominion War was more than 20 years ago. Any sort of controversy over being able to spare resources would have carried more weight if Picard hadn't had to go on a parody of Fox News to remind everyone that Romulan's were people too.

As much as I love a post-scarcity future things do take time to build, to train and to equip.

I agree with this statement in general. "Post scarcity" has always been a misnomer for Star Trek. I still think the living conditions we see for the Romulan refugees is well below what people are capable of in-universe, even in harsh times.

And the addiction stuff? So, we are going to base this assumption on what a 17 year old kid knows? With due respect, that is generalizing a lot based upon one person. We see Beverly is able to recognize an addiction with the planet they are sent to supply "medical supplies." We see free alcohol consumption, there is a reference to "sucking salt" and it is considered a "nasty habit." There is holo-addiction with Barclay (something he never got over), as well as Janeway's frequent caffeine use. The idea that addiction has been eliminated does not bear up under scrutiny nor is supported any where on screen.

I got the impression that serious drug addiction was more or less unheard of in the Federation and Quark acted like he had never seen smoking before. Even if we accept that it's still a thing, piling on dark and gritty plot elements that aren't entirely necessary seems really forced. I don't see the benefit in things that technically could happen, but are very unlikely in-universe just because the writers want to cultivate a certain tone that seems shoehorned to begin with, unless they're absolutely vital to the plot.

 

[DaveyNY]

This is what I don't understand...

Why the Hell are folks comparing FIVE Episodes of a TEN Episode Story Arc to...

178 Episodes of The Next Generation
176 Episodes of Deep Space-9
172 Episodes of Voyager
098 Episodes of ENTERPRISE
&
080 Episodes of The Original Series?

Personally, I think we should at least let the season finish before going off, half-cocked about it Not Being My Star Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

I got the impression that serious drug addiction was more or less unheard of in the Federation and Quark acted like he had never seen smoking before. Even if we accept that it's still a thing, piling on dark and gritty plot elements that aren't entirely necessary seems really forced. I don't see the benefit in things that technically could happen, but are very unlikely in-universe just because the writers want to cultivate a certain tone that seems shoehorned to begin with, unless they're absolutely vital to the plot.

This is where you and I will disagree greatly. I don't think the writers are doing it because it to shoehorn it in. I think it is vital to the plot to show the lengths that Picard feels he needs to make up for his mistake of walking away. I also think it highlights how the fall of the Romulan Star Empire has led to challenges, which it naturally would.

Again, we haven't seen every part of Federation life, even in Picard. We see Picard out in the frontier, not utilizing his usual Starfleet resources. Of course it is going to be different.

This is what I don't understand...

Why the Hell are folks comparing FIVE Episodes of a TEN Episode Story Arc to...

178 Episodes of The Next Generation
176 Episodes of Deep Space-9
172 Episodes of Voyager
098 Episodes of ENTERPRISE
&
080 Episodes of The Original Series?

Personally, I think we should at least let the season finish before going off, half-cocked about it Not Being My Star Trek.

 

[The Old Mixer]

This is what I don't understand...

Why the Hell are folks comparing FIVE Episodes of a TEN Episode Story Arc to...

178 Episodes of The Next Generation
176 Episodes of Deep Space-9
172 Episodes of Voyager
098 Episodes of ENTERPRISE
&
080 Episodes of The Original Series?

Personally, I think we should at least let the season finish before going off, half-cocked about it Not Being My Star Trek.

Now, now...everyone's entitled to poor taste; saying they're quitting but continuing to hate watch it; and coming on here to tell us about it.

 

[TPezz]

If the name starts with “Star Trek”, well guess what, it’s Star Trek.

You don’t have to love current Trek. There’s nothing saying you have to watch it. Go back and watch TNG on VHS is you are missing your Trek.

Shows like TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY would NOT work in today’s environment. YOU and most old school Trek fans are no longer their target audience. The writers have done a good job on Picard with having a relevant show with Easter Eggs got thrown in for legacy fans.

The good thing is that people that I know who have watched Disco and Picard as their first Trek shows, are now going back and watching the older shows and discovering (pun intended) the magic of the Trek franchise.

Trek is a broad church that MANY different people inhabit. Trek has had to evolve and adapt to stay relevant in today’s entertainment climate. New Trek doesn’t erase Old Trek, it is a new chapter that adds to its greatness.

Annnnd besides all that, both Disco and Picard have been hits. It’s raking in the cash for CBS. They wouldn’t be developing all these additional shows unless it was financially viable. CBS cares more about its shareholders and making money for them than your feelings. Unless Discovery had been an overwhelming success, Picard, Lower Decks, S31, Pike, etc would never have been considered. I’m sure there will be some “flops” among them, due to the nature of saturation, but so far, Discovery, as the flagship Trek show, is a money printing machine, regardless of anyone’s opinions of it.

I personally am not enjoying Picard as much as I do Disco. I share my opinions and get on with my day. Just cause YOU don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad and you should ruin the experience and act superior to those who do. Share your opinion and move the fuck on. I’m sick of every thread getting derailed by haters, or every second thread being about your feelings on what a terrible show it is. Some of you have wayyyyyyy to much time on your hands.

Bring on DSC S3-4, Lower Decks, Picard S2-3, S31 and whatever else they want to do! I’m excited for Treks future and to be here sharing it with all you amazing people

 

[DaveyNY]

I gotta say, based on my personal interactions around here and having read 99% of the posts in the PICARD forum, it really isn't those of us who grew up watching TOS that are doing all the complaining.

It's the folks who latched on during TNG's hey-day that are pizzin' the loudest.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek 2009 is not Star Trek.
Star Trek Into Darkness is not Star Trek
Star Trek Beyond is not Star Trek
Star Trek Discovery is not Star Trek
Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

 

[Captain Killy]

BSG induced depression in me so hard. Picard isn't even close.

Oh God how I loved BSG when it first aired. I was obsessed with it. And yet I have never been able to bring myself to rewatch a single episode. I just couldn’t bring myself to get punched in the gut over and over and over again like that...also the Cylon’s didn’t actually have a plan and I’m still bitter about it.

 

[DaveyNY]

Once more for the Pic-Ard?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Even if you ignore the aesthetic qualities that are completely at odds with Star Trek such as the camera angles, lighting,

Non-canon camera angles and lighting? This is "wrong font!" all over again!

 

[Captain Killy]

Meaningless it is. Until Picard is locked into power armor and force-fed drugs to fight ad infinitum while his body decays, I'll stop protesting.

Well to be fair, Picard does have Murder Nuns now. Qowat Milat. Adepta Sororitas. It’s all the same thing right??

Edit: On the other hand, no boob plate...yet.

Edit2: You know, now that I think about, I’m shocked someone like Doomcock hasn’t called them out for plagiarizing Games Workshop. And you know, just cuz I’ve said it, watch, it’ll be next week’s video. Oh God I assume me!! LOL!!

 

[Gov Kodos]

Well to be fair, Picard does have Murder Nuns now. Qowat Milat. Adepta Sororitas. Sooo...

Edit: On the other hand, no boob plate...

Now, picture the leader of the Romulan ZV as Ian McKellen in boob plate.

 

[slappy]

I've been presented this argument pretty much every year since the has internet existed. __________ isn't Star Trek.

I've tackled it from several different angles. I'll try my latest and most honest one: I really don't care if it's "Trek" or not.

I appreciate anyone's reasonable opinion, but this is a tired argument. You're only 25 so you have a long way to go before you get to where I am. I've found things to enjoy in all the series. If I don't like it, I just ignore it. I've seen every nanosecond of Star Trek TV and movies. Every time they do something new, whether good bad or indifferent, here come the endless frowny faces.

This isn't the Trek I know!

Well so what? Gene wouldn't approve. Who cares? Blasphemy!? Cool!

It's clear the showrunners, writers, actors, and staff know Trek just as well as you do. It's up to you whether or not they meet the vision of a dead man who had some good ideas and some bad ones.

I suggest you watch something else. Come back when they make a product more to your liking. Maybe Orville is your speed.

 

[slappy]

If the name starts with “Star Trek”, well guess what, it’s Star Trek.

You don’t have to love current Trek. There’s nothing saying you have to watch it. Go back and watch TNG on VHS is you are missing your Trek.

Shows like TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY would NOT work in today’s environment. YOU and most old school Trek fans are no longer their target audience. The writers have done a good job on Picard with having a relevant show with Easter Eggs got thrown in for legacy fans.

The good thing is that people that I know who have watched Disco and Picard as their first Trek shows, are now going back and watching the older shows and discovering (pun intended) the magic of the Trek franchise.

Trek is a broad church that MANY different people inhabit. Trek has had to evolve and adapt to stay relevant in today’s entertainment climate. New Trek doesn’t erase Old Trek, it is a new chapter that adds to its greatness.

Annnnd besides all that, both Disco and Picard have been hits. It’s raking in the cash for CBS. They wouldn’t be developing all these additional shows unless it was financially viable. CBS cares more about its shareholders and making money for them than your feelings. Unless Discovery had been an overwhelming success, Picard, Lower Decks, S31, Pike, etc would never have been considered. I’m sure there will be some “flops” among them, due to the nature of saturation, but so far, Discovery, as the flagship Trek show, is a money printing machine, regardless of anyone’s opinions of it.

I personally am not enjoying Picard as much as I do Disco. I share my opinions and get on with my day. Just cause YOU don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s bad and you should ruin the experience and act superior to those who do. Share your opinion and move the fuck on. I’m sick of every thread getting derailed by haters, or every second thread being about your feelings on what a terrible show it is. Some of you have wayyyyyyy to much time on your hands.

Bring on DSC S3-4, Lower Decks, Picard S2-3, S31 and whatever else they want to do! I’m excited for Treks future and to be here sharing it with all you amazing people

What this guy said!

x1000

add it to the Gospel of TPezz, Chapter One

Trek fans are, thankfully, more smug versions of Star Wars fans. We get outraged over little things inside our bubble, but aren't generally aggressive enough to bomb review sites.

Trek is about MANY things at once. It boils down to two things: space adventure and a better future with some missteps along the way.

If their heart is in the right place, then it's Trek. It's either good or it's not.