Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread
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You're talking about something completely different. When you compare ticket sales, yes, the Kelvin films are a resounding success from that perspective. However, I am NOT talking about ticket sales, I'm talking about the ROI (return of investment), and the fact is that the Kelvin films were WILDLY more expensive than any of the ten original films.
STAR TREK BEYOND is the fourth highest selling Trek film in terms of the amount of tickets sold worldwide, but it didn't make much of a profit for Paramount either. When you put so much money into the production and marketing of these films and the ROI turns out too low to justify making them, there's not much of incentive to want to spend money on these films. This is why the Kelvin series is currently stuck in limbo. Paramount hasn't been able to turn this into the giant box office behemoth like Transformers, Marvel, and Star Wars.
That's why I said they were underperforming, because in the context of spending the kind of money they did, they were. Now, if the films were made on a much more modest budget of like $90m and the box office results turned out the same as they did with the first three, we'd probably be talking about a FIFTH Kelvin film that was supposed to come out this summer but has been delayed by COVID-19. But no, we're in a world where there is no new Star Trek ready in the can and we still have COVID-19.
Yeah they did pretty well at the box office really, I think Paramount were expecting a billion per film like we have seen with some of the Marvel franchise or Star Wars, that was never really going to happen though, I think it was mostly a case of unrealistic expectations on their part.
All three of the films made money and its not like they were cheap to make either, there is no pleasing some people.
It always seems to boil down to greed, enough is never enough.
There's definitely greed to it, but I do think the kind of money the Kelvin films made was about as much as a Trek film could possibly gross. It just doesn't have the same mass appeal as Marvel, Star Wars, or Transformers. But they really did try, and we ultimately got three mega budget Star Trek films. We may never get something like that again.
BTS collection on TrekCollective
https://www.thetrekcollective.com/2020/05/picard-behind-scenes-cinematography.html?m=1
https://www.thetrekcollective.com/2020/05/picard-behind-scenes-cinematography.html?m=1
Which is unfortunate because I truly believe ST 09 was on the cusp of greatness and moving Trek away from its cloistered halls to a larger appeal. Genre films were becoming far more popular, thanks to Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and the upswing in Marvel (at the time). I think that Abrams has the right approach in terms of making a film that appealed to both fans (myself) and non fans (my wife). But, the long time between films, and immediate running back to Trek staples with Khan. And, while I think ST ID is a good film, it definitely impacted the appeal, I think, as well as the loud fan push back.
Now, I don't think Star Trek can do Marvel or Star Wars but it definitely could do better with the Kelvin style if handled well.
There were definitely missteps along the way, but I think Trek ultimately lends itself better on TV. And like Pegg alluded, the production values have started to become more cinematic in a way even a tv reboot in 2009 wouldn’t have possibly dreamed of.
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Gonzo
Guest
Having shorter seasons helps as well, not just in cost sharing but also in the number of shows that can be produced at the same time, hopefully it will also ensure the scripts are of a high quality, something that was hard to do when each season was over 20 episodes.
The only downside is the limited number of hours available in each season for backstory and individual character arcs for the rest of the crew.
That is why it helps to use some characters who are already established via previous shows or short treks.
The only downside is the limited number of hours available in each season for backstory and individual character arcs for the rest of the crew.
That is why it helps to use some characters who are already established via previous shows or short treks.
At this point it seems TV is the way, but personally I see no reason why there cannot be both. I think ST 09 was the best example of what could be done.
I now know what a good number of my friends IRL think of Picard who might've been interested. There was one last one who I was waiting for before was I going to type anything here. Bear in mind that for most of them Star Trek began and ended with TNG.
Four of them liked it, one of them doesn't like it at all, and one refuses to watch. So two out of three liked it. Not a bad ratio.
Four of them liked it, one of them doesn't like it at all, and one refuses to watch. So two out of three liked it. Not a bad ratio.
The Meat Loaf Ratio.
Four out of five dentists recommend Picard for their patients who chew gum.
Seven out of nine rangers are former Tertiary Adjuncts.
If this is your reaction to any one singular piece of work impacting your future opinion of something you have professed to love, then you basically have lost the ability to have your opinion taken seriously.
There are many problems I have with Star Trek 2009, but every single flaw I have in the film can be found in many multiple episodes or films of Trek. I mean I utterly hated several episode of TOS, and it never impacted my ability to enjoy TOS, find small nuggets in those utterly awful episodes to enjoy, or dampen my desire to see more in that universe. And that is true for the TOS film series, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, TNG films. Kelvin Verse films, DSC, PIC, Short Treks and eagerly awaiting to see SNW. I will admit, I never took a liking to the Animated Series when it came out (or any point after that when I tried to watch it), but it didn't impact my desire in any way shape or form in wanting to see more Trek (there are moments and ideas I like, but as a whole, can't stand it).
Now to balance this, I also really hated how he promoted his refit NX-01, like it was ever an approved at any time during production possibility (it never, ever was, not even close). But besides that I generally liked his work and his enjoyment of Trek (even if I didn't always agree with him).
Kind of sad that Harry won't return, but not surprised, as I didn't see how his character at this point could be anything but a reoccurring character at best. I actually have liked the actor in everything I have seen him do, from Penny Dreadful, Mr. Mercedes and now Picard.
Got an email from CBS All Access saying that the eBook of The Last Best Hope has been marked down to $1.99.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/bo.../9781982139452?et_cid=130504&et_rid=107767541
https://www.simonandschuster.com/bo.../9781982139452?et_cid=130504&et_rid=107767541
My retcon theory about Lal's cascade failure is that Data didn't know that he had to make two.
That's why there was Lore! And why B4 ended up in the drawer (having no twin of his own, a cascade failure Soong learned from as he then created Lore & Data).
BOOM!That's why there was Lore! And why B4 ended up in the drawer (having no twin of his own, a cascade failure Soong learned from as he then created Lore & Data).
This is an interview with Ronald D. Moore where he talks about Picard:
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-the-next-generation-writing-episodes/
“I enjoyed Picard very much. I was invited to the premiere, that was a very lovely gesture that they made. And it was great. It was really, I was surprised how emotionally satisfying it was to see Patrick in that role again,” he admitted. “It really made me like, ‘Wow. This is really kind of cool, watching him be Jean-Luc again.’ The same with Brent and Jonathan. It was like, ‘Wow.’ It meant a lot to see them up doing those roles. It was very cool.”
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-the-next-generation-writing-episodes/
“I enjoyed Picard very much. I was invited to the premiere, that was a very lovely gesture that they made. And it was great. It was really, I was surprised how emotionally satisfying it was to see Patrick in that role again,” he admitted. “It really made me like, ‘Wow. This is really kind of cool, watching him be Jean-Luc again.’ The same with Brent and Jonathan. It was like, ‘Wow.’ It meant a lot to see them up doing those roles. It was very cool.”
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I figured he'd liked Picard. His views and my views of Star Trek in general are pretty similar if not almost identical.
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