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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

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Let's focus on this for a second because it's an important point worth considering when we're talking about how agile starships can be. It's very easy to think of impulse engines as just "fancy rockets" and warp drive's much more boring sibling, but as shown on screen impulse engines provide acceleration far and away in advance of even any theoretical engine we know of today.

The TNG Technical Manual says that impulse drives are "required" to be able to provide an acceleration of 10km/sec²... that's about 1000g! However, in fact from what we see on screen some impulse engines must be capable of substantially higher acceleration than this. In Star Trek: The Motion Picture the Enterprise travels from Earth to Jupiter in 1.8 hours at "warp 0.5". During this time its warp drive is explicitly offline, so we know it must be entirely running on impulse here, and that therefore "warp 0.5" must be a sublight speed. It's not clear what the relative positions of Earth and Jupiter were in ST:TMP but their closest approach is 590 million kilometres and their furthest distance is around 960 million kilometres, with the average distance between them being 778 million kilometres; this gives us an upper and lower limit of the distance travelled and therefore the acceleration achieved.

If Jupiter is at its closest approach to Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 28.1km/s².
If Jupiter is at its furthest distance from Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 45.7km/s².
Assuming the average distance between Jupiter and Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 37.1km/s².

In even the slowest case, this is somewhat greater than the acceleration of a bullet in the barrel of a rifle when it is fired. And the Enterprise is sustaining this rate of acceleration for almost two hours :wtf:

TL;DR: impulse engines are hella powerful and can provide crazy accelerations of thousands of g for multiple hours at a time. Thank god for inertial dampers. Warp drive might get all the glory but even the most basic impulse engine technology would literally revolutionise space travel and exploration as we know it.
I didn't check your math or citation, but assuming all is accurate, that puts the nail in the coffin of the claim that the maneuvers under discussion are inconsistent with the TNG-era Enterprise-D. And you cited licensed tie-in material written by people who worked on the show that was based on technical reference material used during production of the show. Well done.
 
The TNG Technical Manual says that impulse drives are "required" to be able to provide an acceleration of 10km/sec²... that's about 1000g! However, in fact from what we see on screen some impulse engines must be capable of substantially higher acceleration than this. In Star Trek: The Motion Picture the Enterprise travels from Earth to Jupiter in 1.8 hours at "warp 0.5". During this time its warp drive is explicitly offline, so we know it must be entirely running on impulse here, and that therefore "warp 0.5" must be a sublight speed. It's not clear what the relative positions of Earth and Jupiter were in ST:TMP but their closest approach is 590 million kilometres and their furthest distance is around 960 million kilometres, with the average distance between them being 778 million kilometres; this gives us an upper and lower limit of the distance travelled and therefore the acceleration achieved.

If Jupiter is at its closest approach to Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 28.1km/s².
If Jupiter is at its furthest distance from Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 45.7km/s².
Assuming the average distance between Jupiter and Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 37.1km/s².

In even the slowest case, this is somewhat greater than the acceleration of a bullet in the barrel of a rifle when it is fired. And the Enterprise is sustaining this rate of acceleration for almost two hours :wtf:
The acceleration, assuming that it's 10 km/s² is significantly above Earth's 9.80665 m/s² average gravity.

That's a acceleration factor of 1,019.7162129779282425700927431896 g
That's ~= 1,019.717 g

The CST (Constant Space Time) coils that give you the extra acceleration necessary to meet the acceleration times that we see on screen, it basically acts as a multiplier for the Base minimum listed Acceleration factor by ALOT more.

1.00 c = 299,792,458.0 m/s
0.25 c = _74,948,114.5 m/s
Why Star Trek's Impulse Speeds Are Totally Impractical
To accelerate to 0.23c w/o CST Driver Coils to enhance performance using 10 km/sec²:
Wow! It would take almost two hours and 1.6 times the distance from the Earth to the Sun!
Time to Accelerate to 0.23c = 6895.227 seconds
___________________________ = _ 114.920 minutes
___________________________ = ____ 1.915 hrs

Time to Accelerate to 0.25c = 7494.81145 seconds
___________________________ = _ 124.91352416… minutes
___________________________ = ___ 2.0818920694… hrs

- The Constant Acceleration Limit w/o CST, would be due to Inertial Dampeners not working; so limit to ~3g which should be similar to NASA's STS Space Shuttle's Maximum Acceleration factor. However that would be piss slow.
- Handling ~1,019.7g's is very do-able once you have Inertial Dampeners working, even then, that would still be slow.
- This is why Impulse Engines need the CST coils & Inertial Dampeners to work together; otherwise you just have a Fusion Rocket that has it's thrust output severely handicapped due to lack of Inertial Dampeners or CST.

- Which is why the CST coils needs to have a "Multiplier Effect" on acceleration output to match the acceleration factors we see on screen to match modern day Jet Fighter (Accel to Mach 1) or Automobile (0-60) acceleration times that we see on screen.

https://www.quora.com/How-fast-can-...-What-is-the-fastest-accelerating-fighter-jet
Normal Fighter Jet Acceleration to Mach ~1.0 usually takes about:
- Usually takes about 17-22 seconds to Mach 1.0 @ Minimum Mass/Payload
- Usually takes about 28-36 seconds to Mach 1.0 @ Maximum Mass/Payload
For a StarShip, depending on it's mass your acceleration times could be up to 65.535 seconds, in a worst case scenario, it would usually be at 99.999 seconds at the absolute worst case scenario for largest heaviest StarShip. The slower you make your acceleration the easier it is for other vessels to catch up to it at STL, so you want to setup a reasonable acceleration performance target when you design your vessels. Obviously faster is better, but don't go crazy to over-compensate and add more STL Impulse Exhausts to the point that a giant chunk of your mass / volume budget gets dedicated to Impulse Exhaust drives.

To have Fighter-Jet like acceleration to 0.25c from stand-still, you need to accomplish the acceleration in 2-digit seconds.
Not rated in hours.
CST Driver Coil 'Acceleration-factor' Multiplier from Classical Newtonian Exhaust @ 10 km/s² =
- 114.36349202716105897611963073167× ~= 114.364× for taking up to 65.535 seconds to accelerate to 0.25c
- Obviously the 'Acceleration-factor' Multiplier will change based on how fast/slow you want to accelerate up to the top speeds.

That's how much the CST would need to multiply the traditional Newtonian Exhaust to get to 0.25c to match IRL Fighter-Jet like acceleration times to that accelerate to Mach 1.0.
- Smaller & Lighter vessels like Small Shuttles can accelerate to 0.25c in less time due to smaller mass
- Obviously Larger vessels like a StarShip would be slower to accelerate unless you have REALLY PowerFul Impulse Drives.
 
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The acceleration, assuming that it's 10 m/s² is only slightly above Earth's 9.80665 m/s² average gravity.

That's a acceleration factor of 1.0197162129779282425700927431896g

The TNGTM specifies ten kilometres per second per second. Not ten metres per second per second.

The CST (Constant Space Time) coils that give you the extra acceleration necessary must multiply the Acceleration factor by ALOT more.


1.0 c = 299,792,458.0 m/s
0.25c = 74,948,114.5 m/s
Why Star Trek's Impulse Speeds Are Totally Impractical
To accelerate to 0.23c w/o CST Driver Coils to enhance performance using 10 km/sec²:
Wow! It would take almost two hours and 1.6 times the distance from the Earth to the Sun!
Time to Accelerate to 0.23c = 6895.227 seconds
= 114.920 minutes
= 1.915 hrs

Time to Accelerate to 0.25c = 7494.81145 seconds
= 124.91352416… minutes
= 2.0818920694… hrs

The Constant Acceleration Limit w/o CST, would be due to Inertial Dampeners not working; so limit to ~1g
This is why Impulse Engines need the CST to work, otherwise you just have a Fusion Rocket.
And handling 1.0197g's is very do-able compared to Rocket Acceleration from Earth.
It's also faster than probably anything we have right now, but piss slow compared to what is portrayed on screen. Which is why the CST needs to have a "Multiplier Effect" on acceleration output.

https://www.quora.com/How-fast-can-...-What-is-the-fastest-accelerating-fighter-jet
Normal Fighter Jet Acceleration to Mach ~1.0 usually takes up to 65.535 seconds in a worst case scenario is usually 99.999 seconds at worst in the absolute worst case scenario for largest vehicle
- Usually takes about 17-22 seconds to Mach 1.0 @ Minimum Mass/Payload
- Usually takes about 28-36 seconds to Mach 1.0 @ Maximum Mass/Payload

To have Fighter-Jet like acceleration to 0.25c from stand-still, you need to accomplish the acceleration in 2-digit seconds.
Not rated in hours.
CST Driver Coil 'Acceleration-factor' Multiplier from Classical Newtonian Exhaust =
- 114.36349202716105897611963073167× ~= 114.364× for taking up to 65.535 seconds to accelerate to 0.25c
- Obviously the 'Acceleration-factor' Multiplier will change based on how fast/slow you want to accelerate up to the top speeds.

That's how much the CST would need to multiply the traditional Newtonian Exhaust to get to 0.25c in Fighter-Jet like acceleration to Mach 1.0.
- Smaller & Lighter vessels like Small Shuttles can accelerate to 0.25c in less time due to smaller mass
- Obviously Larger vessels like a StarShip would be slower to accelerate unless you have REALLY PowerFul Impulse Drives.

Are you doing a headcanon thing? There's nothing I'm aware of in Star Trek called a "CST (Constant Space Time) coil". I did the sums in my previous post – I showed the precise acceleration starships has been shown to achieve in canon using explicitly given times and known distances between two planetary objects. I don't understand what you're referring to above.
 
So if the fleet works by line-of-sight (like a tv remote), then they should have stayed cloaked from the start. That way they wouldn’t have been infected.
 
Let's focus on this for a second because it's an important point worth considering when we're talking about how agile starships can be. It's very easy to think of impulse engines as just "fancy rockets" and warp drive's much more boring sibling, but as shown on screen impulse engines provide acceleration far and away in advance of even any theoretical engine we know of today.

The TNG Technical Manual says that impulse drives are "required" to be able to provide an acceleration of 10km/sec²... that's about 1000g! However, in fact from what we see on screen some impulse engines must be capable of substantially higher acceleration than this. In Star Trek: The Motion Picture the Enterprise travels from Earth to Jupiter in 1.8 hours at "warp 0.5". During this time its warp drive is explicitly offline, so we know it must be entirely running on impulse here, and that therefore "warp 0.5" must be a sublight speed. It's not clear what the relative positions of Earth and Jupiter were in ST:TMP but their closest approach is 590 million kilometres and their furthest distance is around 960 million kilometres, with the average distance between them being 778 million kilometres; this gives us an upper and lower limit of the distance travelled and therefore the acceleration achieved.

If Jupiter is at its closest approach to Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 28.1km/s².
If Jupiter is at its furthest distance from Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 45.7km/s².
Assuming the average distance between Jupiter and Earth, the acceleration the Enterprise sustains is around 37.1km/s².

In even the slowest case, this is somewhat greater than the acceleration of a bullet in the barrel of a rifle when it is fired. And the Enterprise is sustaining this rate of acceleration for almost two hours :wtf:

TL;DR: impulse engines are hella powerful and can provide crazy accelerations of thousands of g for multiple hours at a time. Thank god for inertial dampers. Warp drive might get all the glory but even the most basic impulse engine technology would literally revolutionise space travel and exploration as we know it.
indeed: if we had Impulse engines and Inertial Dampeners, backed by fusion reactors like in the series, every point in the solar system would be within minutes and even reaching the closest stars wouldn’t be out of question (it would take a few years…not easily done but doable).
 
Let’s not forget random helm ensign rolling the ship in the Jenolan sphere.
(It will turn out it was Ro, won’t it. Sob.)
 
I thought it was fun. The ships can likely do things beyond what their biologic crewmembers can achieve. Data can do it, but he didn't have the "instinct" needed to make that leap. Now he does.

In the end, regardless of what we think one way or the other, to borrow a meme...."starship go brrrrrr". :D

edit: a word.
 
I enjoyed seeing the Enterprise-D pull off moves they couldn't do on '80s or early-'90s TV. Anyone who says otherwise is lying at least a little, because it would ruin their image as jaded curmudgeons if they admitted they got a kick out of it too. I think they secretly liked seeing the Enterprise-D back in the thick of things, even if they won't say it.
 
It was Wesley who stepped aside to let Picard take the helm.

@Cortez should've known that, being the bigger Trekkie than all of us that he claims to be.

I didn't even remember that, honestly.

But like... Neo Data is specifically not Old Data. He's a golem, a human android hybrid or whatever. He has Data's processing speed combined with human gut instinct. If anyone would get the D to move like that, it's Data.
 
New Data is basically a cybernetically enhanced synthetic human.

He is, 100%, not old Data at all...he now as "gut instincts" which is why Geordi was incredulous at first lol.

At some point you guys will realize that the person you're sparring with doesn't actually watch these shows, and perhaps never has. He takes talking points from youtube videos and other peoples reviews and throws them out. When he makes a mistake and is caught on it, he hand waves and immediately goes to the victim card.

You get used to it.
 
The Battle of Wolf 359 from Deep Space Nine's "Emissary":
tumblr_mn9gbiXK9f1s67vyfo1_250.gifv

That's two ships, roughly 3/4 the size of the Galaxy Class, making hairpin turns in space. And it's canon from the Berman era.

Your opinion seems to be in the minority.
IIRC, DS9 was the only show that did that "effect" with it's ships (the Lakota as well), and I always thought it looked unrealistic. But that's just me.
 
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