Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Apr 19, 2023.

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Engage!

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  1. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Admiral Moderator

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    Do we get to see Voyager-B or are we stuck with the cool yet pixelated episode 1 image?
     
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  2. SeamusShameless

    SeamusShameless Captain Captain

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    That was fucking perfect. Didn't think I'd like Titan being rechristened when I saw the spoilers, but I loved it.
     
  3. Blackout

    Blackout Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Can you explain what you mean? I'm unaware of the context.
     
  4. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It may be somewhere in the fleet, I don't have the energy (or screen size!) to analyze it :D
     
  5. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mulgrew was living in London at the time doing another TV show. That could explain why she didn’t do it.
     
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  6. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    Reminded me of what someone said about Spider-Man: No Way Home - "You thought you were watching the third Spider-Man movie, but you were really watching the Peter Parker / Spider-Man origin story in 3 parts."

    This season turned out to be the USS Enterprise-G origin story. It's far better than just plopping a new ship in an end-of-episode cameo with a crew we don't know.

    This is another example of Matalas being very very clever. It was 100% the right call. I thought they'd reactive the Enterprise-D permanently and give it a third nacelle to canonize the Galaxy-X (sort of) in prime, and put Riker in command. That is one of the last parts of All Good Things that didn't happen or have an echo in Picard. But the actual solution by Matalas was far, far, far better. Instead of forgetting about the Titan now that the Enterprise D had one last mission, we care about it more than ever.
     
  7. OdeToSpot

    OdeToSpot Ensign Red Shirt

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    This was the poster provided at the LA (Grove) showing. One of the already-released publicity photos I believe.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, with 3D gold letters :luvlove:
     
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  9. gweeps

    gweeps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My theory now is that Q was dying. But only in Picard's timeline.

    I don't know. What a mess it all is. :lol:
     
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  10. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    I hoped that would be Data's send off too, but it would have been a different kind of ending.

    I also kind of hoped the final bookend for the series would take place in the far, far, far, far future.... like in the 50th century or something, on Copelius, where Data still very much, with Soji next to him, gets done reading a story to none other than the recreated Lal. Picard Seasons 1-3 would have been Data telling his daughter he finally brought back far in the future how she was born.

    But that too would have been maybe too metafictional for this show and would have opened a can of worms for fans. The ending we got is the right ending.
     
  11. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’m sure it’s only the provisional Enterprise G. They’ll be building the actual one :)

    They were lucky that beacon didn’t have shields. That would have been awkward
     
  12. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    Nah not really. It's really, really good for Star Trek that Seasons 1 and 2 of Picard don't matter. But to be fair, we often gloss over how much of TNG Seasons 1-3, and DS9 seasons 1-2 and Voyager Season 1 got completely ignored by subsequent seasons and shows. Trek Continuity is perhaps the franchise's greatest fiction and Matalas wise was to retcon Q's dumb death, just like Season 2 retconned the super evolved Synths from beyond that may have killed the Tkon.

    And don't look now, but if you saw the preview for SNW, guess what! Classic 80s-00s Klingons are back, baby and that Discovery Season 1/2 garbage is retconned straight to the garbage pile where it belongs!
     
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  13. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    It's provisional just like the USS Yorktown was rechristened the USS Enterprise-A.

    Which is to say, not provisional. This is the Enterprise-G. The end.
     
  14. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That was always just a theory. It’s never actually stated what the A was beforehand
     
  15. Sparky

    Sparky Commodore Commodore

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    Unless it gets specifically addressed by Matalas, or in another series, I think the Q appearance is open to interpretation. It could be Q from an earlier point in his life, with the show throwing us a bit of Doctor Who style wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, or it could be after his 'death', as even in season 2 Q said he wasn't sure of what was actually happening, or what was going to come next.
     
  16. Ketrick

    Ketrick Commander Red Shirt

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    What a total waste of time! A bunch of nostalgia-fueled non-sense....and absolutely perfect. Chef's kiss.
     
  17. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    Okay if that's not canon enough for you (even though it's uniformly the position of the producers and suggested by Gene Roddenberry himself and referenced as such in all licensed works in the 21st century) as precedent, good news, they did it again!

    On DS9, the Sao Paulo became the USS Defiant. Ugly carpet and all.

    The Titan is now the USS Enterprise-G
     
  18. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    Doctor Who has made this point time and time again over the years. Star Trek never did but it's actually pretty universal. If you're an immortal being who can pop into linear time in any order, the order in which you show up on that timeline doesn't have to be linear at all. I remember years back looking at diagrams of the Doctor and River Song's encounters fans had made. Nominally, they were traveling in opposite directions. When laid out on paper, that was impossible, and it was wildly out of order.

    Of course Matt Smith had that great line "I'm Twelve hundred and something, I think, unless I'm lying. I can't remember if I'm lying about my age, that's how old I am," The Doctor could have easily been a million years old before the stuff with the 12th and retcon of the 13th. Really who knows.

    We'll see if we ever see Q again (I hope so), but they should draw on this. It would open up new potential to do different types of Qs.
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We got a proper and final resolution for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine twenty-four years ago. It was entitled "What You Leave Behind, Parts I & II."

    No, O'Brien is really more a DS9 character than a TNG character.

    That was never going to happen.

    As others have said, the cube only reached Jupiter immediately after Jack's hijacked shuttlecraft arrived, very shortly before Jack was assimilated and the signal sent out. The cube was at Jupiter for maybe an hour before the signal went out, at most.

    Such a bizarre need to imagine some kind of hostility between the Matalas writing crew and the Paradise writing crew. These people are all colleagues.

    Nah, it was perfect.

    I mean, yeah, 90s Trek is over. PIC is very much a send-off for that Berman-era vibe.

    I mean, it's not that Earth leaving the Federation would lead to its downfall. It's that if Earth falls, the entire Federation Council, Supreme Court, and President, and Starfleet Headquarters, are all down there -- so we're talking the decapitation of the entire Federation government in one day. And, the entire Starfleet fleet is apparently all in Earth orbit -- all 7,000 ships -- so the only defense the rest of the Federation would have would be whatever member world space forces remain outside of Starfleet's org chart (the Vulcan Defense Force, the Andorian Imperial Guard, etc.) and whatever civilian ships they can press into service.

    That's a very different thing from United Earth legally seceding and the Federation government and Starfleet Headquarters moving off-planet.

    I mean, listen. The show is Star Trek: Picard, not Star Trek: Janeway, and Star Trek: First Contact already established that the Queen had a fixation on him. It's fine for her to blame the Federation collectively for Janeway's neurolytic pathogen and to take that anger out on Picard.

    We don't know how many rogue Changelings were at play. It could be only a hundred or so. Being able to remotely hack into Starfleet transporters to reprogram them to insert Borg DNA is not something that requires the physical presence of a Changeling aboard every affected starship and station.

    Of course they do. But this episode isn't about that. You might as well be upset that "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" didn't focus on the trauma of the survivors of Wolf 359.

    Yeah, that was disappointing. But her character was mentioned fondly, and it was great to see her in S2.

    Honestly I didn't like the idea of Jack joining Starfleet. I get a little tired of the way Star Trek acts like out of 150 planets across 8,000 light-years, the only career of any value is becoming a space cop.

    Yeah, I didn't like that part. But as far as I'm concerned, they're back together.

    I'm not really clear what the meaningful distinction would even be between a miniseries and a season of PIC.

    It would appear! We could probably see another branch of them at some point, and we could see independent collectives like Jurati's, but I hope this is the last we see of the Borg proper.

    A shit-ton.

    Yes. We saw it go kaboom.

    And presumably Crusher also designed other sensor modifications to find them. Though I imagine a bunch of surviving Changelings probably just got out of Dodge once they saw on the news that the Borg had been defeated, so there likely aren't many Changelings left to catch.

    This is an incredibly small detail that does not matter.

    Shelby is dead. We saw her surrounded by assimilated Enterprise-F crewmembers shooting her with phasers at point-blank range. There is no reasonable possibility she survived.

    Yeah, I don't think they adequately established why the Enterprise-F was taken out of commission after the Borg Crisis. I know an earlier episode established it was going to be decommissioned early, but they didn't draw enough attention to that for the re-christening of the Titan-A into the Enterprise-G to feel intuitive.

    That was a little fan-wanky but I'll allow it. Though I have to admit that I'm slightly bummed that my headcanon that Nanietta Bacco from the novels was elected President after PIC S1 has presumably now been nullified by canon. Oh well!

    I'm not. I'm tired of dead characters coming back to life.

    I see no reason to think that.

    I mean, sure, but even a Star Trek: Legacy series would not exactly be a continuation of 90s Trek at this point. The vibe would be too different in too many ways, no matter how much you use LCARS on your set decorations.

    That checks out. Pavel was born in 2245, so if President Chekov is about 80 in 2401, then he would have been born circa 2321, when Pavel would have been 76. All quite do-able, especially since we're literally watching a show about a guy who became a dad at around 75.

    Who's to say she didn't? Or, rather, that the Federation President didn't order that all Borg ships be found and their crews liberated? But as far as we know, the only Borg ships the Federation ever encountered after 2378 was the Artifact from PIC S1 and the cube from PRO "Let Sleeping Borg Lie." The crew of the Protostar wouldn't have known to try to destroy it or liberate its crew, and wouldn't have had the capacity to do so anyway. The Artifact, meanwhile, was in Romulan space and under Romulan control. (And at least one PRO writer has speculated that the cube from PRO later became the Artifact.)

    Well, the Admonition the Borg assimilated in S1 presumably only affected the Artifact, which may or may not have been the cube from "Sleeping Borg." But we know that cubes that don't have a Queen aboard and which have been cut off from the Queen can sometimes maintain functional mini-collectives for a time, because assimilation involves a certain amount of brainwashing. Presumably that's what happened with the one in "Sleeping Borg." That one was also dormant at first -- presumably its mini-collective would eventually have broken down and the ship ended up in disrepair. Remember, "Let Sleeping Borg Lie" is set in 2384, only six years after "Endgame, Part II," while "The Last Generation" is set 23 years after "Endgame" and 17 years after "Sleeping Borg." That's a lot of time for the Queen's situation to degenerate.

    Apparently Spacedock's weapons systems weren't hacked by the Fleet Formation program and therefore could be used to defend against the hijacked fleet, and their control center was able to remain under Starfleet control.

    Writers have been forgetting about quantum torpedoes since NEM in 2002. But I don't remember anything explicitly precluding quantum torpedoes from being at play in this episode?

    She was trying to get the Borgified ships to attack the Titan rather than Spacedock, thereby allowing Spacedock to stay operational longer and defend Earth's surface longer, in the hopes that doing so would buy enough time for the Enterprise to destroy the Borg Queen. It was pretty clearly established in dialogue.

    She didn't expect to survive the battle. It was a delaying tactic she anticipated would end in death.

    And how is that any different from doing the exact same thing in "The Best of Both Worlds" or Star Trek: First Contact?

    Well, no, it was because the cube was barely operational and devoting most of its energy to broadcasting the control signal.

    Or, Jack, after years of heroic service with the Mariposas in defense of marginalized people throughout the galaxy in defiance of unjust laws, after helping uncover the Changeling infiltration of Starfleet and defeating the Changeling boarding party aboard the Titan, and then after becoming quite possibly the first fully assimilated being in known history to reject assimilation and re-assert his individual personality in spite of the obvious mind-control he had been operating under ever since Troi opened the Red Door in his brain, was given a Starfleet commission.

    This is a level of petty that is ridiculous.

    Honestly I would have preferred it end with the heroic and loving death of Jean-Luc Picard.

    That's awesome. :)

    :/ I'm sorry, but to act like the subject of death is somehow new to fiction or is being used more than it used to be used in fiction is just... not a realistic assessment of the situation. Death has always been common in fiction because, y'know, it's kind of the fundamental fact of human life and always has been. It's the only truly universal human experience.

    If anything, I'd say popular fiction doesn't really use death enough, since so often it's more "death" than death because characters get resurrected so often.

    Strongly disagree. Star Trek: Picard has always been a series about finding meaning, purpose, and love in the face of grief and mortality. It would have been thematically appropriate for Jean-Luc Picard, having been given a reprieve at the end of "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II," to finally pass in "The Last Generation."

    I think I'd rather see a series that gives us happy endings and mortality. Because there's a point where having characters who never die and always get resurrected... it's just dishonest. That's not a happy ending, that's a lie.

    Which, y'know, whatever. "The Last Generation" was a fun episode and I enjoyed it. But I would have rather seen the salvation of the Federation, the heroes go on to live happy lives, new life in the form of the next next generation, alongside the death of Jean-Luc Picard. Because death is a part of life, no matter how much we pretend otherwise.

    That is pretty cool. :)

    I don't think he's second officer. He's "special counselor to the captain," probably similar to Troi's role aboard the Enterprise-D. But Troi wasn't second officer. That's probably Mura.

    I did love seeing the Enterprise-D move under modern CGI capabilities.

    Citation needed.

    Why? Star Trek: Generations was not a sequel to Star Trek: The Motion Picture, it was a film continuation of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Continuing the sequels past The Undiscovered Country makes no sense.

    Well, "The Last Generation" is ambiguous on that part. They could be together, or Jack could just have a nice photo of them at some fancy dinner together. (I think I recognize that picture as being of Patrick Stewart and Gates McFadden at -- I want to say they're at LeVar Burton's wedding in the early 90s, but I'm not sure.)

    Personally, I'm torn. On one hand, I'm a longtime Jean-Luc/Beverly shipper. On the other hand, it feels kind of disrespectful to Laris and to the dramatic integrity of PIC S2 to have him dump her over Space Zoom for Beverly.
     
  20. Joanna McCoy-Kirk

    Joanna McCoy-Kirk Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder who President Chekov's mother was.