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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

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Lore isn't Data. Putting Data's memories in his brain would just give them Lore with Data's memories, and Lore was an insane mass murderer. Lore's emotional instability was a fundamental flaw in the design of his positronic matrix, which is the entire reason Soong designed Data without emotions.
I suppose that holds if they never did any research on Lore's brain ever or made changes at all in a new version of the brain for Data, which seems unlikely for scientists Maddox and Soong.

Considering Data is able to be transported intact, why can't he be replicated like Thomas Riker? I never even thought of that.
 
Picard living on in a new body was the thing I said, earlier in the thread, that I could live with. I decided I wasn't going to be that person, but I wouldn't blame anyone for taking issue.

He'll only live out the lifespan he would've without the brain defect. Otherwise, I'd have more issue with it. It's better-rooted in science-fiction than Spock's revival in TSFS, to be very brutally honest.
 
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I was mildly pleased with the solution for this episode. I'm glad that the show went out with a "Star Fleet Good" note and everyone can get along without shooting at each other. It's frankly the least they could do after all they've put us through. It's funny that the show, with all its ham fisted fan placation, would surprise and delight me by giving us the most mundane and predictable of Star Trek endings that I could have never predicted because of their general incompetence.

It's a shame everything else was just tragically bad:
• 200 Starfleet ships on 200 Romulan ships? Come on. They could have had enough tension with 3 or 4 each. Plus, where TF did they get all these ships? We've got Romulans on earth having it so bad they're manual laborers. But they also have a state of the art fleet?
• The whole psych out plan with the soccer ball was lame. Why would a drone fly past Soji before heading up to the antenna? So she can catch it, of course.
• Riker being the head of the fleet is stupid only due to the writer's own corner painting. Why put him in retirement on some backwater planet to begin with? Why not have a still in service Riker the whole time, possible even at odds with Picard as he was in AGT?
• Elf-Boy and Soong-Son turned out to be completely pointless characters. Neither added a thing to the plot that someone else couldn't. They had no personality or desires.
• Picard couldn't just die at 93 years old of natural causes? That's supposed to be a tragedy? And put him in a robot body that's as old and feeble and will die any minute? It's a terrible, stupid waste of resources.

But worst of all is that the writers thought we needed to see Data die again. He already died heroically on his own terms. Besides having another chance at a tear jerker, what was the point? He didn't even have a place in the whole series. He was in the first episode and then he was in the last. He had zero effect in between. This wasn't his story at all, especially since none of the synths are his actual built-by-his-hands kids as we were originally told, and yet he capped off the whole show with the only permanent repercussions. In the end, I really don't get what the writers wanted from this show. Nothing in the narrative flows neatly into the finale. Picard is treated like an asshole the whole time, but in the end he's right just being his usual self. Star Fleet and the federation are incompetent monsters the whole time, but in the end they just magically do the right thing. Rios is just a guy with some connection to the whole robot plot. Raffi's alcoholism is just there. She gets to have a last fun drink like it's nothing in the end shot. Anges is just a lovable murderer who never even had a change of heart. She was just brain washed and had the sense to never want to kill humanity.

Seeing her have multiple heads was funny though. I loled.
 
Hated the 200+ ship vs. 200+ ship idea. Just noise, and takes away from the story as well as any belief. Starfleet had that many of their most advanced ship just hanging out and bored? Is the story any less with 3-4 of each fleet? Plenty to blow up a small colony, and makes it more real instead of infinite ship spam that doesn’t matter.
 
Picard living on in a new body was the thing I said, earlier in the thread, that I could live with. I decided I wasn't going to be that person, but I wouldn't blame anyone for taking issue.

He'll only live out the lifespan he would've without the brain defect. Otherwise, I'd have more issue with it. It's better-rooted in science-fiction than Spock's revival in TSFS, to be very brutally honest.

Dig too deep and you have to answer why people who can dissemble and reassemble your individual atoms over great distances can't reassemble him without the defect. Or why the dead's atoms can't be reassembled into their living state.

That said, I, like you, don't question people who dislike the choice.
 
You mean like how Spock transferred his spirit into McCoy and had his body magically regenerate on a magical planet and end up at exactly the same age he was when he died in TWOK and they put his spirit back into his body despite never having been mentioned before?

THE MADNESS OF PICARD SHOWRUNNERS

Just because it's been done before worse (over and over again) doesn't mean you can't dislike it being done again.
 
You mean like how Spock transferred his spirit into McCoy and had his body magically regenerate on a magical planet and end up at exactly the same age he was when he died in TWOK and they put his spirit back into his body despite never having been mentioned before?

THE MADNESS OF PICARD SHOWRUNNERS
Dig too deep and you have to answer why people who can dissemble and reassemble your individual atoms over great distances can't reassemble him without the defect. Or why the dead's atoms can't be reassembled into their living state.

That said, I, like you, don't question people who dislike the choice.
When Picard reached up to Elnor's face as he was dying I was thinking he was about to do a katra transfer
 
You mean like how Spock transferred his spirit into McCoy and had his body magically regenerate on a magical planet and end up at exactly the same age he was when he died in TWOK and they put his spirit back into his body despite never having been mentioned before?

THE MADNESS OF PICARD SHOWRUNNERS

No. I mean like how a copy of Picard's consciousness is now walking around in an android body. Spock was still Spock becasue the original essence of him was still alive and moved back into his same body.

Picard's brain was, presumably, scanned and uploaded into the quantum thing, then transferred into the new body. The real Picard would have been dead and the copy was what was transferred into the synth body. Also why rebuild him as an old man? I get why the producers did it. But it make no sense from the character's stand point.
 
I was mildly pleased with the solution for this episode. I'm glad that the show went out with a "Star Fleet Good" note and everyone can get along without shooting at each other. It's frankly the least they could do after all they've put us through. It's funny that the show, with all its ham fisted fan placation, would surprise and delight me by giving us the most mundane and predictable of Star Trek endings that I could have never predicted because of their general incompetence.

It's a shame everything else was just tragically bad:
• 200 Starfleet ships on 200 Romulan ships? Come on. They could have had enough tension with 3 or 4 each. Plus, where TF did they get all these ships? We've got Romulans on earth having it so bad they're manual laborers. But they also have a state of the art fleet?
• The whole psych out plan with the soccer ball was lame. Why would a drone fly past Soji before heading up to the antenna? So she can catch it, of course.
• Riker being the head of the fleet is stupid only due to the writer's own corner painting. Why put him in retirement on some backwater planet to begin with? Why not have a still in service Riker the whole time, possible even at odds with Picard as he was in AGT?
• Elf-Boy and Soong-Son turned out to be completely pointless characters. Neither added a thing to the plot that someone else couldn't. They had no personality or desires.
• Picard couldn't just die at 93 years old of natural causes? That's supposed to be a tragedy? And put him in a robot body that's as old and feeble and will die any minute? It's a terrible, stupid waste of resources.

But worst of all is that the writers thought we needed to see Data die again. He already died heroically on his own terms. Besides having another chance at a tear jerker, what was the point? He didn't even have a place in the whole series. He was in the first episode and then he was in the last. He had zero effect in between. This wasn't his story at all, especially since none of the synths are his actual built-by-his-hands kids as we were originally told, and yet he capped off the whole show with the only permanent repercussions. In the end, I really don't get what the writers wanted from this show. Nothing in the narrative flows neatly into the finale. Picard is treated like an asshole the whole time, but in the end he's right just being his usual self. Star Fleet and the federation are incompetent monsters the whole time, but in the end they just magically do the right thing. Rios is just a guy with some connection to the whole robot plot. Raffi's alcoholism is just there. She gets to have a last fun drink like it's nothing in the end shot. Anges is just a lovable murderer who never even had a change of heart. She was just brain washed and had the sense to never want to kill humanity.

Seeing her have multiple heads was funny though. I loled.

It's because this show wasn't written with a theme or a story in mind - but from moment to moment, with the intent to max out emotional intensity.

In the beginning I was willing to forgive a lot of visible seams - because I thought they were plot set-ups for a larger narrative. Stupid me thought this whole thing would be a Picard-Borg story, with a lot of Romulan intrigue sprinkled in to padd out the plot and show the Borg from a different angle (trying to survive, instead of assimilating the universe). Could have been a great conundrum as well - do the Borg have a right to survive? Would have made a great theme, too, about Picard and his regrets at saving one species of enemies, now having to decide over another.

But alas - you could take out the Borg cube of the story ENTIRELY, and it wouldn't make a difference. Hell, it would have made even MORE sense if Narek & Soji just met at a Romulan university...
 
I was mildly pleased with the outcome, halfway through I was not optimistic.

I have several beefs, but also like some of the choices made. Have not read the thread entire.

Beefs/nits:

1) Soong not revealing to the other synths Sutra's actions. That would have also gotten through to Soji. But Pucard HAD to be the one to do it, so we get the ham handed soccer attack scene where Elnor starts kicking synths in the face effectively? So much for them being really good fighters?

2) We needed a wrap up scene in synthville.

3) Fly be the seat of your pants solutions. Picard was locked in a room for 2 days and still hadn't thought about a solution? Wow, that wondertool sure was handy! Jurati knows a lot of Starfleet inside baseball for an MD!

4) Why didn't Rios & Raffi just walk the wondertool over to Seven & fix the Cube (or fly, or beam)? I mean, yeah, Narek's arrival sped things up, but that was worth a second or two. And now Seven is just leaving the Cube xBs & flying with Picard?

5) So Jurati is OK with killing Maddox? All is forgiven?

6) That seemed like a lot more than 15 (?) orchids?

7) How did Rizzo escape the xB hoard & still remain on the Cube?
---------------

Anyway, I gave an 8 for the courage in letting Data go, and the Picard as synth solution (which was my first thought upon seeing it). Though building in a self-decay was an elegant touch.
 
It's because this show wasn't written with a theme or a story in mind - but from moment to moment, with the intent to max out emotional intensity.

I'd disagree with that. I think the themes, imagery and character work are stronger than the plotting and the individual episodes themselves.
 
No. I mean like how a copy of Picard's consciousness is now walking around in an android body. Spock was still Spock becasue the original essence of him was still alive and moved back into his same body.

Picard's brain was, presumably, scanned and uploaded into the quantum thing, then transferred into the new body. The real Picard would have been dead and the copy was what was transferred into the synth body. Also why rebuild him as an old man? I get why the producers did it. But it make no sense from the character's stand point.

No, a copy of Spock was what came back, based on that logic. After Spock did his katra gut and stuff into McCoy..he was still Spock, it wasn't an empty shell sitting in the chamber talking to Kirk.

So essentially all that happened is a technological/biotechno version of what Spock did..people should have seen this coming with the emphasis on Vulcan lore and mind melds by the synths in Pt 1.
 
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