Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Mar 25, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - I'm sending the writers orchids!

    32.9%
  2. 9

    26.4%
  3. 8

    15.6%
  4. 7

    7.8%
  5. 6

    5.4%
  6. 5

    2.0%
  7. 4

    3.7%
  8. 3

    2.7%
  9. 2

    1.4%
  10. 1 - Crash and burn!

    2.0%
  1. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We're introduced to the concept of fractal neuronic cloning by Agnes in episode one, who says it was what Maddox was working on before the ban. Soji and Dahj are the product of that process, created by Maddox. Soji and Dahj are created from Data's neuron. Therefore Maddox had Data's neuron and took it with him to Coppelius. The rest should fall into place pretty easily.
     
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  2. GulBahana

    GulBahana Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I was expecting a big jarring surprise with a possible cliffhanger...but I'm glad they stuck with a more traditional happy ending. It will be interesting to see what they try next season,
     
  3. Nenya

    Nenya Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Kurtzman sure loves his magical resurrection doesn't he?
     
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  4. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think they wanted to give the story a fitting ending in case for some reason they couldn't do a season 2.
     
  5. Count

    Count Commander Red Shirt

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    I would have much preferred if instead of this "Fractal neuronic cloning" rubbish, they simply said that Data's death was unique with the destruction of the scimitar and any atoms from his neural net were quantum entangled with the rest of them at the time of his death. So any neuron or atom could be used to do everything they said they did with it. It just sounds more scientific and less "fantasy" as what they went with.

    Did like Data's final sendoff however, much more fitting than Nemesis was. But it does seem like he was in his own personal hell for as long as it took Picard to arrive and get the message to unplug him.
     
  6. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Yes because that's never been done before in Trek.
     
  7. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    He didn't write the episode and he's not the showrunner. Please try again.
     
  8. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Or Q! So I'm happy about that.
     
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  9. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the scenes with Data were the best part of the finale. They were very poignant and powerful. And they were a perfect conclusion to Data's entire pursuit of being human. The entire finale was satisfying just for those scenes. I also love that Picard saved the day with a speech, rather than action. Very TNG.

    But the finale itself did have some weaknesses:
    - The little handheld device was super convenient magic tech just to move the plot ahead because the writers needed La Sirena fixed.
    - Why did Riker leave and not stay to be with Picard in his final moments?
    - Why was the entire fleet the same ship? They just made a generic looking new class of ship, all grey with very little detail, and copied and pasted a thousands times. Super lazy CGI.
    - Plot hole: why didn't the Romulan fleet attack the planet right away? Why wait? Clearly a plot hole because the writers could not have the Romulans destroy the synth settlement where our main characters were.

    I am not sure how I feel about Picard's "resurrection" literally 5 minutes after his poignant death. It cheapens his death. The writers basically just wanted to have it both ways. They wanted a poignant death scene that would highlight the themes of mortality and sacrifice but they also want Picard to stick around for Season 2 since he is the main character. But I think it might have been better if Picard had stayed dead. After all, he did everything he set out to do. He saved the day. He said goodbye to Data. It totally trivializes his death, just to put in a synth body where he can keep going like nothing happened.

    Also, the scene with Seven and Raffi holding hands in a romantic way. Are they a lesbian couple now? That seemed like an odd last minute thing that totally came out of total left field with no set up whatsoever.
     
  10. 1987SpaceGuy

    1987SpaceGuy Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Liked:
    the Data/Picard, later Raffi/Elnor (a Mama finds a new son and vice versa) and Rios/Annika(Seven) scenes. Data's nice send off.
    AI Song not turning out to be mustache twirlingly evil.
    Annika(Seven) holding hands with Raffi (even if it's out of the blue)

    the Bad:
    Everything else.

    SO MANY PLOT HOLES / OPEN QUESTIONS - UGH
    What happened to / What's with:

    the XBs that needed Annika(Seven) and Elnors protection?
    AI Soong and Maddox Synth Androids?
    Agnes not turning herself in for killing Maddox?
    Startfleet Romulan Vulcan Tal Shiar Commodore Superspy just "leaving their very old and long cause to destroy synths" to prevent a Startfleet Romulan battle?
    the Murderous Romulan Brother Lover?
     
  11. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Agreed about the Data scenes.
    Handheld/sonic screwdriver was odd.......
    Riker had no idea what was going on with Picard--only Agnes knew it was happening
    I think there were 3 designs---we just didn't get any really good shots.
     
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  12. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They all looked the same to me.

    [​IMG]

    But I guess I am a little disappointed that they did not throw in a recognizable class like a Sovereign, Odyssey, Intrepid, or Galaxy class. They were clearly going for fan service, why not go the extra mile and give us some fan favorite designs?
     
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  13. Sebastianus

    Sebastianus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Well, the episode was written by Chabon and Goldsman. It's a collaborative project after all.
     
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  14. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Having thought about it for a while, I have to say I don't care for the Seven and Raffi pairing. Or rather, I should say I feel uncomfortable with how it was handled. The pairing itself is fine. It feels like they just threw two women together before the end because there were some soft implications that they might be gay.

    And as far as I know, it came out of nowhere. If I remember correctly, they had very little screentime together. In fact, the only scene they had any direct contact that I can remember is when Raffi is putting the cuffs on Seven in Stardust. And there was zero sexual tension/subtext to be found there. I guess it might not come off so bad if it was just meant to be a convenience/sympathy snog like Rios and Agnes started out as. But even the latter had a little bit of build-up. Besides, playing Kal-toh while holding hands in the gally seems a lot more intimate than friends with benefits.

    And if it was just a case of "pair everyone off," well that annoys me for a whole host other reasons, the least of which is that it's kind of juvenile.

    So I don't know if I missed something or what? The one thing I did think of is maybe the scene with Seven and Rios sharing the bottle was meant to be Raffi and they had to change it for logistical reasons. Or if the ending was meant to be a flash-forward maybe, but then there's still the optics.

    I don't think that 'If this character is gay and this character is gay, then they should be having sex." Is any better than "If this character is Asian and this character is Asian, then they should be related."
     
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  15. Sebastianus

    Sebastianus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Some of these questions will be answered in season two I guess.
     
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  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    "Mon capitaine" is another phrase that I've gotten very sick of.

    Guess that depends on what you're into.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the ones with yellow ramscoop glow have nacelles that also clearly differ in shape from the nacelles of those with orange glow. The hulls look basically identical, though. I wonder what the point with that was. In doing the Section 31 fleet, they pseudo-kitbashed four or five designs that looked like they were part of a family, but were distinct enough and actually had customized, rather than merely rearranged components. These are more "integrated" shapes, sure, but stretching and squashing and bending is pretty easy; why do so little of it?

    Also, the villain had a distinct command ship. Why doesn't Riker? If they are going with similar fleets, that is. But why not go dissimilar, and give Riker a few big ships when Oh has lots of midgets? Or why not make Riker's force a flotilla of midgets, too?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    This show isn't about Starfleet and Riker showing up was basically a deus ex machina. There is no need for multiple classes of starship for a 30 second scene, just for ship porn reasons.
     
  19. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I respect that some believe Trek is all about the ships. And that may have been true before, but Picard was certainly not.
     
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  20. frankieteardrop

    frankieteardrop Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'm still processing most of the episode, but regarding Seven/Raffi: I agree that it wasn't really built up or alluded to in previous episodes, but then, Rios/Jurati hooked up on pretty tenuous grounds as well. In fact, I don't think it would be much of a stretch to say that the reasons two damaged people like Rios and Jurati gravitated to each other (that is, feelings of emotional vulnerability and wanting a physical connection to distract from their respective realities) are the same reasons Seven and Raffi might have drifted together, especially given everything they had just been through, not to mention all their hardships over the years. They definitely share common ground, not least of all the loss of a son. I think what we're seeing at the end of this episode is the beginnings of a relationship borne out of shared circumstances and experiences, and that kind of relationship can develop pretty quickly. The fact that we haven't seen a lot of Seven/Raffi interaction doesn't make much of a difference to me in this respect, because their coming together still makes sense on an emotional level.

    Also, bisexuality and sexual fluidity are very much a thing, so Seven and Raffi becoming romantically involved doesn't automatically make either of them lesbians or contradict their past relationships with men.