Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x09 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"

[Mark 2000]

A lot of bizarrely lame and at times laughable stuff going on in this episode. Picard announcing his imminent death seems arbitrary and manipulative. There's a son of Soong now? And he looks just like him? And he does the same work? They left the bird sticking out of that robot lady's eye when they laid her in memorial?

This threat to the universe makes zero sense. It's the Control story again with about as much logic behind it. So if robots become alive and are threatened by fleshies, the robot gods come down and kill all the fleshies? Then why isn't the galaxy ruled by the last batch of robots the robot gods saved? Did they take them away to robot Valhalla? If so, why kill the fleshies? Just extract your robots buddies and leave. There is no way in the world the destruction of whole planets, including millions of innocents and even plants and lower animals, is worth a handful of people in any logical mind. No logical computer would ever come up with this solution. That son-of-Soong thinks this is an acceptable solution is mind boggling.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

This week on Star Trek: Westworld...

The Director and his Hosts scheme to screw over humanity because, basically, it's fucked up and can't learn new shit even if it tried...

And someone's eye gets violently mutilated.

 

[Yistaan]

I'm just going to pretend Inigo Soong is Noonian's son the way Boba Fett is Jango Fett's son. They're clones.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

* Bringing up that he has, successfully, just a little bit ago, gotten Starfleet to commit a squadron of ships to protecting Soji and her world.

The same Starfleet that murdered Janna and Maddox? Even as a viewer, I'm not convinced that Starfleet is going to take the right side in this.

 

[fireproof78]

A lot of bizarrely lame and at times laughable stuff going on in this episode. Picard announcing his imminent death seems arbitrary and manipulative. There's a son of Soong now? And he looks just like him? And he does the same work? They left the bird sticking out of that robot lady's eye when they laid her in memorial?

This threat to the universe makes zero sense. It's the Control story again with about as much logic behind it. So if robots become alive and are threatened by fleshies, the robot gods come down and kill all the fleshies? Then why isn't the galaxy ruled by the last batch of robots the robot gods saved? Did they take them away to robot Valhalla? If so, why kill the fleshies? Just extract your robots buddies and leave. There is no way in the world the destruction of whole planets, including millions of innocents and even plants and lower animals, is worth a handful of people in any logical mind. No logical computer would ever come up with this solution. That son-of-Soong thinks this is an acceptable solution is mind boggling.

Sounds like the M-5.

Logic doesn't automatically mean that they are incapable of wholesale slaughter. Logic is only as good as the information inputted in to the system.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

She just misses her twin, Kama.

I'm starting to think the Admonition is just another test of humanity - cue Q!

OK, not really, but it might be more fun.

A.I. Soong?!

Cue the Q Queue?

 

[Cake]

Does anyone think that advanced android that Soong is making might be used by Picard? It would solve the issue caused by the defect in his brain, but would probably destroy the character.

I think Soong wants to use it for himself though I think it will get destroyed or he will die before that happens. I really don't think Picard will use it.

What are Sutra's motivations? Power? She was the one who hurt her fellow synths by releasing Narek.

Also Narek can kill an android so easily? This doesn't strike Soong as odd? I thought androids activated and were super strong and super fast when in danger.

I think Sutra killed Saga. She just let Narek out to make it seems like he did it. And I think she killed Saga to spur the hate among the synths against organics. It is easier to get their support for contacting those evolved synths when they hate and are afraid of biological lifeforms.

I am guessing the tendrils in the red vortex is the alliance of synths coming towards the planet. The red vortex is their version of a transwarp conduit.

Yes, those mechanical tenctacles reminds me of Matrix, Transformers and Doctor Octopus. They are practically cliche evil tech.

My concern for the finale is that the ending will be too predictable. Soji talking to Picard about sacrifice feels like an obvious telegraph that she will turn on the other synths and sacrifice herself to save the galaxy. And the scenes about mind transfer seems like a telegraph that Picard will transfer his mind into a synth body before he dies. I feel like we can pretty much guess how the finale will go. There will be a big battle. The synths will activate the beacon (we see that in the trailer). Soji will sacrifice herself to stop the threat. Picard dies but transfers his mind into a synth body.

I really don't think Picard's mind will be put into that synth body. For once I don't think they would build a synth looking like geriatic Picard. Obviously Soong plans to use it for himself and considering all the other androids on the planet I am sure he goes for a young and pretty look.

They had already announced that they have at least a three seasons plan and it really sounded like Patrick Stewart plans to be in all of them. So I really don't think a different actor will play Picard. Therefore Picard will survive in human form and will likely die at the end of the series. They never said in the series that he will die at once. His illness is getting worse, but I think he has at least some more months to live, maybe a few years even.

To emphasize how much of an overkill the 218 warbirds against the synths is, the Tal Shiar at their height during the Dominion war only brought 5 warbirds and 15 Cardassian warships against the Founders' homeworld: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Omarion_Nebula . Yes, 5 at the height of their power against the Dominion homeworld.

Yet now, after their Empire is destroyed, they have all these ships on call? And all these crews will follow without question a bombardment of a planet most of the crews other than the Zhat Vash have never heard of before? Even after Romulan authorities failed them in saving their homeworld? That's some loyalty.

I agree. The Romulans can get together so many warbirds, but they can't help their fellow Romulans on the homeworld of Elnor? This fleet just feels too big and too powerful for a disorganized and seemingly relative poor Romulan population now.

 

[Yistaan]

I agree. The Romulans can get together so many warbirds, but they can't help their fellow Romulans on the homeworld of Elnor? This fleet just feels too big and too powerful for a disorganized and seemingly relative poor Romulan population now.

And most of these Romulans would realistically rather move into this idyllic new planet as a new homeworld rather than bombard it over a fairy tale. Albeit they might not want to share it with synths, but it's better than not having a world.

 

[Rahul]

Eeeeeeh..... I did not like this episode. Because I don't like the overall arc.

Really. Someone has been playing "Mass Effect" too much, and thinks the Reapers are a really good idea for a drama show insted of... you know, for a video game.

Really, this whole arc has turned out to be majorly stupid. It's still written and acted very well. But it has the same problem all Star Trek since ST09 (hell, Nemesis) has - it tries to be high stakes action-schlock.


Make no mistakes - there is still good Star Trek around - actual Star Trek - Short Treks!
Star Trek is really more about exploring different ideas with a steady cast. I really don't care about how many more times they have to save civilisation/Earth/the Multiverse. That shit gets boooooooring.

 

[Airmandan]

In regards to the warbirds, how do we know that they're actually the size of say the D'deridex or Valdore class ships? Sure they may be called warbirds but they may actually be quite small, which would explain their numbers.

Secondly, a good option that they could use is that Picard does in fact get downloaded into robo body, however his brain issue causes memory problems. Hell if the suggestion of Soji sacrificing herself turns out to be true, what happens of they both get put into the same body, so she's running around doing her thing, but she's able to see and hear picard. She could spend half the time trying to decide if she's going crazy, then the later part trying to get him into a new body. Would make for an interesting dynamic, especially if they bring back any other characters that they've dealt with in previous shows. I don't know, it's Star Trek, anything is possible.

 

[Roboturner913]

It not like Picard gets shouted over or silenced, he doesn't even try, standing by quietly and letting his opponent's fallacies go without rebuttal. He gave freaking Shinzon more pushback.

I bought him as so frustrated and upset (and betrayed?) in this moment he couldn't find the words. Like, I've definitely been in that situation before. I feel like that's what his face and body language are conveying.

Generally speaking I didn't like the things that happened in this episode but I thought it was acted pretty well.

 

[Mark 2000]

Sounds like the M-5.
Logic doesn't automatically mean that they are incapable of wholesale slaughter. Logic is only as good as the information inputted in to the system.

The M5 was malfunctioning. Even it realized what it was doing was murder and sacrificed itself. It wasn't even as sophisticated as the Soong-bots and it took very little to convince it. And that's even saying Ultimate Computer wasn't silly in its own right. Plus, that was one episode, not the center of two whole arcs.

 

[DaveyNY]

Well, I was curious and went back and transcribed the Admonition audio. Here it is, with editorial notes. I will spoiler code it, though, since it may be a bit too much for A.M. on Thursday.

Spoiler: The Admonition

{Voice of Sutra} Life begins. The dance of division and replication. Imperfect. Finite. Organic life evolves, yearns for perfection. That yearning leads to synthetic life. {ed. note, an image of a synthetic heart is shown at this point} But organics perceive this perfection as a threat. When they realize their creations do not age or become sick or die they will seek to destroy them {images of violence begin} and in so doing, destroy themselves. {Mars attack shown at this point} Beyond the boundaries of time {!} and space, we stand, an alliance of synthetic life. {space images shown} Watching you. Waiting for your signal. Summon us, and we will come. {A transmission tower is shown. It looks like the one we see assembling itself in the preview for the next episode.} You will have our protection. {Visuals of the Romulans at Narissa's Admonishment are shown, which is odd since Sutra is supposed to be experiencing a memory of the content of the Admonishment.} Your evolution will be their extinction. {Showing bombardment of a planet that is vaguely Mars-like, but with small bodies of water and some clouds - Vulcan? - the planet explodes.}

Frame by frame, this is interesting. The production department had to build this scene, and I wonder what they were intending. When the narrator - Sutra's voice, but Oh's vision - is speaking, we consistently get images that logically match the subject being discussed, but the source of the images does not appear to be consistent. When mentioning that organics will destroy themselves, we see an image of the relatively recent Mars attack orchestrated by Oh. When speaking of summoning the synthetic alliance, an image appears that is clearly in the actual future - a transmission tower that we see being assembled in the preview for the next episode. This probably represents the instructions for contacting the Synthetic Alliance that are supposed to be encoded in the message. Then when "protection" is mentioned, we see the Admonishment that Oh witnessed as a spectator - the one experience by Narissa and Ramdha. Finally we see images of planetary destruction on a large scale. These images match those shown in episode 8 when the Admonition was first shown. So one important question is whether the images are from the message itself or supplied by the receiver of the message - if so, the receiver is Oh since the images are the same as we (the viewer) saw in Episode 8. If the images are wholly from the message itself, then the images of the planetary destruction are likely to be the form of the "protection" the synth alliance will provide. And at least some of the imagery - the transmission tower for certain - is from the message itself. However, neither the images of the Mars attack nor the images of the Admonition that Oh witnessed could have been supplied by the message sender, which implies these images are at least partly Oh's interpretation. Which mean that the form of the "protection" could be the product of Romulan paranoia. So IMO the promise that, "You will have our protection," could still mean refuge.

Also, on the subject of whether Soong is Lore...well, his name is A.I. Soong.

I think it's important to remember that Sutra is essentially seeing it filtered twice.
Once through Oh and then again through Agnes.
Of course bits of it are going to be jumbled with Oh and Jurati's own interpretations.

 

[Dale Sams]

To emphasize how much of an overkill the 218 warbirds against the synths is, the Tal Shiar at their height during the Dominion war only brought 5 warbirds and 15 Cardassian warships against the Founders' homeworld: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Omarion_Nebula . Yes, 5 at the height of their power against the Dominion homeworld.

Yet now, after their Empire is destroyed, they have all these ships on call? And all these crews will follow without question a bombardment of a planet most of the crews other than the Zhat Vash have never heard of before? Even after Romulan authorities failed them in saving their homeworld? That's some loyalty.

The Tal Shiar arnt supposed to have ANY ships. Thats why their fleet was so small. Its like discovering the CIA has a couple of aircraft carriers that answer to no one.

 

[USS Belmont]

I am sorry, I couldn’t help but laugh at the thought of Picard season 2 to be Brent Spiner doing impersonations of Patrick Stewart as Picard (He was great doing that at cons) Season 2 will die in an artificial heart beat!

 

[DaveyNY]

I agree. The Romulans can get together so many warbirds, but they can't help their fellow Romulans on the homeworld of Elnor? This fleet just feels too big and too powerful for a disorganized and seemingly relative poor Romulan population now.

Remember that the Elite of Romulas plus their spy networks probably left as soon as it was discovered that the supernova was happening.
The "relativly poor Romulan population" was who was left behind.
All those ships were reserved for those who were in power and everybody else was left to fend for themselves.

Which is also probably why the Romulan Senate was so willing to let the Federation come in and help.
It was a political ploy to keep the masses left behind content and under control.

 

[fireproof78]

The M5 was malfunctioning. Even it realized what it was doing was murder and sacrificed itself. It wasn't even as sophisticated as the Soong-bots and it took very little to convince it. And that's even saying Ultimate Computer wasn't silly in its own right. Plus, that was one episode, not the center of two whole arcs.

No, the M5 was unstable because it was based upon Daystrom's own personality.

And doesn't change the fact that logic can be used to justify horrible decisions. Slaughtering of a threat may be quite logical in the face of possible extinction. That is the nature of survival based decisions.

And I don't care if it is one episode or if it is an arc. It is still a part of Trek storytelling and sets the foundation for how things can continue to work. We have seen multiple instances were logic has been used to justify violence in Trek before. I've seen it in books and comics that I have read over the years.

I don't understand this tendency to dismiss past Trek stories as somehow illegitimate to influence current storytelling.

Remember that the Elite of Romulas plus their spy networks probably left as soon as it was discovered that the supernova was happening.
The "relativly poor Romulan population" was who was left behind.
All those ships were reserved for those who were in power and everybody else was left to fend for themselves.

Exactly.

 

[Llywela]

The same Starfleet that murdered Janna and Maddox? Even as a viewer, I'm not convinced that Starfleet is going to take the right side in this.

Starfleet did not murder either Jana or Maddox. Commodore Oh, who is a Zhat Vash infiltrator, manipulated Agnes and Captain Vandermeer respectively to carry out the murders on her behalf. She made Vandermeer believe that the order came from Starfleet, but it did not, it came from her and her alone.

 

[Yistaan]

Starfleet did not murder either Jana or Maddox. Commodore Oh, who is a Zhat Vash infiltrator, manipulated Agnes and Captain Vandermeer respectively to carry out the murders on her behalf. She made Vandermeer believe that the order came from Starfleet, but it did not, it came from her and her alone.

The system backs her up though. She suffered no consequences. The Starfleet system failed to keep her or those in her position in check.

In that case, it is fair to blame Starfleet. In the real world, when presidents go rogue or do illegal things people are right to call out the government for not keeping them in line.

Odo: Interesting, isn't it? The Federation claims to abhor Section Thirty One's tactics, but when they need the dirty work done, they look the other way. It's a tidy little arrangement, wouldn't you say?

 

[Mark 2000]

No, the M5 was unstable because it was based upon Daystrom's own personality.

Was it supposed to be "unstable"? No? Then that's a malfunction.

And doesn't change the fact that logic can be used to justify horrible decisions. Slaughtering of a threat may be quite logical in the face of possible extinction. That is the nature of survival based decisions.

No, unstable engrams from a human are used to justify horrible decisions. No logic involved. Just like there's no logic in defending bad story choices. By your reasoning Slobodan Milosevic used logic to slaughter Muslims and the Hutus used logic to slaughter the Tutsi. That writers and fans would try to convince me that that's a possible, blank-faced logical outcome instead of one caused by human emotional barbarism is disturbing. Do you really believe that?

And I don't care if it is one episode or if it is an arc. It is still a part of Trek storytelling and sets the foundation for how things can continue to work. We have seen multiple instances were logic has been used to justify violence in Trek before. I've seen it in books and comics that I have read over the years.

It does matter if a mistake is a one off or if it is the basis of ten hours of story telling, just like flicking someone on the knee is different than punching them in the face.

I don't understand this tendency to dismiss past Trek stories as somehow illegitimate to influence current storytelling.

This sounds like an appeal to tradition. Make the same mistakes because that's the way it was done before.