Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning"

[BillJ]

That's not the Picard we know and no amount of "well, he was depressed, too!" justifications will make it ring true.

I think that kinda falls under personal interpretation. I don't think he would've just walked away. I think he would've continued to be a public voice to rally support for the Romulan cause, and privately worked whatever avenues available to him to continue the mission. Though that wasn't the route the writers or Stewart chose.

But, as someone that has suffered through depression on and off my whole life, sometimes something hits you hard enough that you just want to crawl in a corner and lock yourself away.

 

[Crewman6]

That is absolutely nothing on screen that suggests she was a drug user while in Starfleet - nothing.

There is, actually, and I only know this because I just re-watched the scene a minute ago to try to sort through it all.

She says she's been suffering from "Snakeweek paranoia" but that "some things never change", subtly, but clearly referring to a snake weed habit that goes back quite a while.

 

[Racefuel]

As a side note, about the state of humans/federation/starfleet...DS9 did touch on the fact that deep, deep, deep down humanity hasn't fundamentally change.

Quark:
'Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes.”

 

[ISS-Magnum]

I like Raffi

I like her even more!

 

[Crewman6]

How much of his behavior is due to the alleged Irumodic Syndrome?

Well, considering one of the suggested symptoms was not "being a selfish dick who ignores his friends" and because that behavior stretches back 14 years, I'm going to say none of it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well, to be fair you should only be comparing Picard to the first 3 episodes of those shows because that's all that has aired so far. I would argue the first 3 episodes of Picard are better than the first 3 episodes of Breaking Bad. But comparing completely different types and genres of shows to each other is pointless anyway.

Picard isn't episodes. It's a nine hour movie with 9 x 168 hour smoke breaks.

 

[Crewman6]

I think that kinda falls under personal interpretation. I don't think he would've just walked away. I think he would've continued to be a public voice to rally support for the Romulan cause, and privately worked whatever avenues available to him to continue the mission. Though that wasn't the route the writers or Stewart chose.

But, as someone that has suffered through depression on and off my whole life, sometimes something hits you hard enough that you just want to crawl in a corner and lock yourself away.

Very sorry for your depression. But JLP doesn't suffer from clinical, chronic depression, but rather his specific feelings regarding his disappointment about the evacuation. That's not the same thing and isn't justification for cutting a good friend out of his life for no reason.

 

[DaveyNY]

Two issues:

I goofed and misunderstood the order of the dialogue. I thought she actually said, " I got fired" while at Vasquez rocks, but instead she said she had her "clearance revoked", which is exactly the kind of demotion/transfer/whatever I was advocating for, not realizing I was simply wrong.

Second thing: I still think it's shitty and out of character for Picard to literally just ignore her for 14 years after she got screwed over following his resignation. That's not the Picard we know and no amount of "well, he was depressed, too!" justifications will make it ring true.

As I have indicated before, when Data died Jean-Luc's whole world was turned upend.
It's not just that he was depressed, it's that the Federation had completely turned away from all the good will that he and Data had built up through their years together involving Androids among humans, after the Synth's went off the reservation.

It was a complete blow to his EGO and to the memory of Data.

That kind of thing does change ones outlook and the worst thing he could have done was to hide himself away at the chateau.
Laris practically beats him over the head with that each time she talks to him.

 

[Crewman6]

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-not-happy-vindman-164652620.html
Here's an example of a military man losing his job for giving testimony under subpoena as well as his twin brother for um, reasons.

I'd like to think that even the somewhat tarnished Starfleet of the "picard" show is at least marginally better than the bottomless well of amorality that is our current administration.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Hugh wasn’t in episode 2

They mentioned him by title.

 

[Alan Roi]

No, you're supposed to feel that Picard leaving Starfleet/walking away from the core of the Federation was justified

Which it was.

Which it wasn't. And we are supposed to understand that when Picard has his epiphany in the first episode.

Picard acknowledges that his walking away was a stupid mistake of him giving in to self righteous offense and that he's wasted the last 15 years of his life because of it.

 

[BillJ]

But JLP doesn't suffer from clinical, chronic depression, but rather his specific feelings regarding his disappointment about the evacuation.

Problem being, we don't know how hard it hit him personally. Essentially, the organization that he committed his life to, kicked him in the proverbial nads and showed him the door. I can imagine such treatment sending a lot of folks to a deep dark place.

 

[DaveyNY]

If it's not a part of the text, then it doesn't count for anyone.

HOWEVER.....!

I just rewatched the scene in question and discovered I misremembered several facts! While she's toking up, she says, "Somethings never change", referencing the fact that, even back then, she was into snakeweed or whatever.

So, the show did, in fact, establish her drug use going back to the flashback era.

Still not the same as "being an addict", but I'll allow for the possibility.

OH MY GOODNESS !!!

Conciliatory, thy name be Crewman6.

The world does have a chance to survive now.

 

[Crewman6]

Fortunately most others have the communication skills and tact to present counter-arguments with more teeth than an insecure declaration of how terrible someone else's opinion or argument is though. That approach just makes you look like a weak, angry bully.

And I'm sure that's not who you or how you want to come off

Some feedback for you. For whatever it's worth!

Fair point. Provided you could come up with actual instances where I simply made an "insecure declaration" WITHOUT actually providing reasons why I disagreed with those opinions.

I'll wait...

 

[Crewman6]

Problem being, we don't know how hard it hit him personally. Essentially, the organization that he committed his life to, kicked him in the proverbial nads and showed him the door. I can imagine such treatment sending a lot of folks to a deep dark place.

I don't have a problem with JLP being in a "dark place." With being disillusioned and "waiting to die."

I DO have a problem with JLP abandoning his friends during a crisis. No matter what personal shit he's got going on.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. But it's a shitty look on our captain.

 

[Crewman6]

I'm fine with it. Vulcanoids and elves are pretty similar anyway. They are both ancient smug pointy ears who are better than humans. When I first read LOTR I imagined Elrond looking like Spock.

I always thought Vulcans were happy little creatures who lived in trees and baked cookies. Which is why "Enterprise" was SUCH a disappointment.

 

[BillJ]

But it's a shitty look on our captain.

I think the whole setup is a shitty look on our captain. Though I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Alan Roi]

Very sorry for your depression. But JLP doesn't suffer from clinical, chronic depression, but rather his specific feelings regarding his disappointment about the evacuation. That's not the same thing and isn't justification for cutting a good friend out of his life for no reason.

Picard has always demonstrated an outsided identification of his own self rightousness. It has caused a few problems that we've seen over the years.

 

[Crewman6]

OH MY GOODNESS !!!

Conciliatory, thy name be Crewman6.

The world does have a chance to survive now.

Hey, we can have legitimate disagreements all day long, but I'm not going to be dishonest or disingenuous. Happy to admit when I'm wrong!

I discovered that much of my belly-aching today was the result of mishearing and/or misremembering the episode.

Damn, I knew I should have gone to the movies today instead.

 

[Longinus]

I always thought Vulcans were happy little creatures who lived in trees and baked cookies. Which is why "Enterprise" was SUCH a disappointment.

You know nothing about the elves of Middle-Earth, right, especially the Noldor?