Clearly something we humans were too greedy and power-hungry to avoid. But then the Denobulans did seem like a more mellow species that had just one known enemy in canon and that war was years if not decades in their past.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Sisko was a dramatically more pragmatic man than Picard and was far, far more willing to let the ends justify the means..as shown in DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight", poisoning a planet, etc.
If anything Sisko was more of the Admiral Cartwright mindset than Picard could ever imagine. Sisko is probably the best example of Starfleet turning into something that Picard would walk away from.
Yes I dare cast Saint Benjamin in a less than pure light
I like DS9 but I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a Niner. I'm more of a TOS, Disco, and now Picard Fan.
I think we will be dealing with the rights of AI in society in our century, not the 24th/25th. I dont think that the lid can be kept on what in our world are called transhumanist technologies. However, if we assume the Federation has such a ban, how does that affect cyborgs, holopersons like the EMH, or any other AI?
I wasn't saying you were, just pointing out that Picard and Sisko have dramatically different morals and overall values than each other..what is abhorrent to one is a justified measure to the other
My position was based on what we where given so far (ep 1 & 2) and that it was a point I hope gets clarified. When and if there is more explanation then I will happily revise my opinion. No shame in that. The whole thing that started this was my belief that such a monumental and far reaching ban, as a reaction, to one sole event struck me as unreasonable. If more comes out to support their rationale or that it was part of the Romulans plan then I'll go with it and allow for behind the scenes intrigue and shenanigans.
Well, that is another discussion for another day.
All what you cite doesn't apply to this specific discussion. After 9/11 there was some temporary emergency things put into place that later gave way to more deliberative legislation over time. The Patriot Act for example (which also must be actively renewed). Also 9/11 was a series of separate attacks that were investigated and traced to a particular organization and country. What technology or research was banned because of 9/11? The Federation ban on synthetic lifeforms, based on what was presented in episodes 1 & 2 makes no sense and is an incongruity in terms of Starfleet and in terms of human history. Illustrated by the fact no one has yet cited an applicable example.
Walk away from? No. Disagree with? Yes. Sisko was more pragmatic to be sure, however, he was still a believer in Starfleet's ideology and even an idealist. I would think Sisko would have definitely sided with Jean-Luc in advocating they go ahead with rescuing the Romulans despite the Mars incident.
It’s already been dealt with in public opinion. Once they are sentient-ish, we mustn’t be nasty to them, and we must never arm them either. SF is so ingrained that it’s basically Terminator and Wall-E sealing the deal. Heck, I am polite to my echo, and as a result she’s (a) friendly back and (b) hopefully will speak up for me when the machines take over.
This was probably the biggest disaster to strike our solar system since the Breen attack on Earth, so everybody freaking out and over reacting is completely realisitic.
I don't know if we'll get into it this season, but we probably will see how it has effected hologram when The Doctor shows up next season.
Nail clippers and juice bottles.
I said above that we didn't need a perfectly matching example to believe something that can be derived from a general knowledge of human nature, and I'll stand by that. The analogy here in my eyes is rather 'drastic measures and restrictions enacted in reaction to devastating incidents.' And while you are right in saying that there are usually no isolated events causing such drastic change, I think it's a mistake to treat what happened at Utopia Planitia as such an isolated incident.
Utopia Planitia might have just been a single shipyard, but it's always been treated in Star Trek as one of the backbones of Starfleet's industrial capacity, losing it was certainly a crippling blow for the Federation's defense capabilities possibly on the scale of Wolf 359, not to mention being right on Earth's doorstep, which probably informed the severity of the Federation Council's legislative response to it. And when a dangerous new technology focusing on improving on the humanoid form causes such a huge disaster, there's bound to be lots of people with lots of influence saying things like 'it's just like Khan Singh and the Eugenics Wars all over again' and 'this just proves again we shouldn't try to play God'. Not to mention all the times artificial intelligence has caused serious danger... people might cite Daystrom's M5, Lore, the Nanites almost destroying the Enterprise, the Moriarty hologram, and who knows what further examples from other Federation members' and neighboring civilizations' histories, maybe even the Borg would get shoehorned in by some.
Yes, the series didn't broadcast this, and it probably never will. But I don't think the story even needs to explain this for the viewers to understand that most people have already viewed AI with unease before Mars was bombed. Instead of an isolated event, it was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.
Pearl Harbor. One attack got us into World War II for years, and caused a policy to be enacted that confined Japanese Americans to internment camps.
In Picard's case, a technology was banned because the attackers were of that technology.
In Picard's case, a technology was banned because the attackers were of that technology.
Yes, Sisko certainly would never let Romulans to die even if it might mean endangering the Federation...
That reminds me, Boeing 737 MAX-s are still grounded worldwide, right? I seem to recall reading it in the news a few days ago that investigators keep finding more faults in them.
In the case of the synths, however, there probably wasn't anything left to investigate. F8 shot himself in the head, and the others were probably programmed to do it, just in case they weren't destroyed in the bombing, I'd think. So Starfleet probably wasn't able to recover anything that could point to why the synths went bonkers.
What hasn't been hacked in Star Trek? I mean Holodecks, holograms, ships, computers, augmented humans, non-augmented humans, Geordi's VISOR, what's left?
The Enterprise gave birth, for Pete's sake!
Whilst they are not compelled to entertain Picard. If Picard has serious security concerns then they should hear him out. It's not professional for political back and forths to take priority over what might be an urgent threat to Federation interests.
What hasn't been hacked in Star Trek? I mean Holodecks, holograms, ships, computers, augmented humans, non-augmented humans, Geordi's VISOR, what's left?
Yeah, and Barclay turned into a spider... Don't remind me....
I think people would be concerned that given our history of wars and holocausts that the AI might conclude that it is humans who need to be disarmed. In any case I am not sure that they will agree to have fewer rights and privileges than the human citizens.
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