Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

[intrinsical]

It will start with PvP but it's only a matter of time before it spills over into PvE. And it won't be Cryptic driving it, per say, but players.

Eventually, it will get to the point where it will become a sort of unwritten rule for pugs and pre-made pugs. That will slowly snowball into a disaster.

But even that doesn't matter because people will inevitably fall in line. People may not call themselves, min/maxers, but anyone who has ever participated in endgame content in any MMO is to some degree.

Everybody has at some point browsed the interwebz for new build ideas to help them in whatever endgame they're trying to conquer. Those ideas always begin with min/maxers.

And there's also always a key, theme element to them. Yesterday, for example, it was an MVAM. Tomorrow it will be an Odyssey. The former was not nearly as ubiquitous because the advantage it gave over other ships was no where near as obvious. With the latter, however, it eventually going to get to the point EVERY endgame build is an Odyssey. And people will eventually fall in line to the point where at least four ships in any random pug are one.

There has and will always be FOTM builds. And they're just that - current favorites and they change with time. I really don't see any connection between players blindly following favorite builds that requires paying c-store points and the end of STO as we know it.

Lets say that the Bugatti Veyron is the fastest and most badass car in the world. Is everybody in a Bugatti Veyron or a top of the line sports car from Porche/Ferrari/Lamborgini?

Champions Online is a good example. F2P players get access to a base set of archtype heroes. Guess what? If you pay c-store points for elite archtypes, your hero is going to outperform one using the base archtype. So is everyone using an elite archtype? No. Are there groups who reject players using the free archtype? Some, but the vast majority don't care so long as the player with the free archtype is able to contribute to the group.

In many ways, I see STO ship classes and CO hero archtypes as very similar things. They both offer players a foundation upon which to build their ideal ship/hero. The player is still required to collect powerful weapons and what nots to turn this foundation into a powerful ship/hero.

But I think the more important issue is that this shows Cryptic isn't really satisfied with the pay = vanity model, and once they get a taste, they're going to go nuts. Book it.

I am new to STO, I have no idea if Cryptic has ever used the term "vanity model". However, the STO c-store isn't a store based on the vanity model. A STO vanity store would be selling stuff individually rather than in packs. The store would filled with thousands of individual stuff like:

TOS Comm badge - 25 c-points
TNG Comm badge - 25 c-points
DS9 Comm badge - 25 c-points
Engineer Corps Comm badge - 25 c-points
Science Comm badge - 25 c-points
Starfleet Command Comm badge - 25 c-points
DS9 Jacket - 100 c-points
DS9 Inner sweat shirt - 100 c-points
DS9 Pants - 100 c-points
DS9 Boots - 50 c-points
Bajoran Militia Shirt - 100 c-points
Bajoran Vedek Robe - 150 c-points
Sovereign Class Saucer - 600 c-points
Sovereign Class Hull - 600 c-points
Sovereign Class Warp Nacelles - 400 c-points
Sovereign Class Pylons - 400 c-points

I can almost guarantee that it won't be long before the next gear set comes out that will be significantly better than the MACO/OMEGA, and dilithium will be required to buy it.

And I can absolutely guarantee that it won't happen. Any MMO developer knows that the absolute best gear has to be purchased through hard work and hard work alone. That's why we have to constantly run STFs, collecting EDCs and prototype techs just to get those rare Mk XIs.

I have seen the 3 proposed Odyssey variants and I am not sure they're the ideal ship for everybody. The way I see it, what these new Odyssey ships offer is a stronger hull, more console slots and some special consoles that would be overpowering in PvP.

Does the new Odyssey appeal to players who think DPS is king? Resounding yes. Does it appeal to absolutely everybody? Probably not. I know my science officer would have some difficulty fitting her bridge officer's skillset with the science Odyssey and have to sacrifice some key abilities.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Meh, I will probably pick up the Tac version and maybe the Eng version for a future Eng character and for the saucer sep but that's it since I don't really care about the work bees.

 

[intrinsical]

Defense is more important to me than offense. Some of these PvPers are amazing. I've seen ships take continuous, sustained fire from half a dozen ships and almost shrug it off like it was nothing. I remember one ship, about 3 weeks back, that I saw in Ker'rat (A KDF BOP), that just couldn't be killed. 7 ships attacked him straight on, and his shields would fluctuate for a second, and never drop. That went on for a good 30 seconds, by which he then just hauled ass out of range in about 3 seconds.

I've been told by a PvPer that he can permanently hold off just about everything by cycling through a combination of 2 x Tactical Teams, 2 x Transfer Shield Strengths, 2 X Beam Fire At Wills and an occasional Polarize Hull and/or Tractor Beam Repulsors. Yup, fire at will for both offense and defense. I thought it was strange until he pointed out that fire at will takes down the targetable incoming projectiles such as the infamous Elite Tactical Cube's ghost torpedos.

He further claims that with 2 x Directed Energy Modulation and 2 x Rare 35% Antiproton Mag Regulators, he pretty much decimates the field. I don't know if his claims are true, but its a build I'ld love to test out one of these days.

If another Tac player sees you mixing energy weapon types, they will chastise you to hell.

Really? Why is that? I've had a fair bit of luck mixing phaser and polaron beam arrays.

Lower weapons power == Lower damage

They are worried about the power drain that comes from of using weapons of different energy types. Personally, I find that the power drain from 2 energy types to be acceptable and does not significantly reduce my overall damage throughput.

 

[Scout101]

Ok, but instead of having a polaron booster and a phaser booster, you'd get a lot more power out of 2 phasers and 2 phaser boosters...

 

[Amaris]

Defense is more important to me than offense. Some of these PvPers are amazing. I've seen ships take continuous, sustained fire from half a dozen ships and almost shrug it off like it was nothing. I remember one ship, about 3 weeks back, that I saw in Ker'rat (A KDF BOP), that just couldn't be killed. 7 ships attacked him straight on, and his shields would fluctuate for a second, and never drop. That went on for a good 30 seconds, by which he then just hauled ass out of range in about 3 seconds.

I've been told by a PvPer that he can permanently hold off just about everything by cycling through a combination of 2 x Tactical Teams, 2 x Transfer Shield Strengths, 2 X Beam Fire At Wills and an occasional Polarize Hull and/or Tractor Beam Repulsors. Yup, fire at will for both offense and defense. I thought it was strange until he pointed out that fire at will takes down the targetable incoming projectiles such as the infamous Elite Tactical Cube's ghost torpedos.

He further claims that with 2 x Directed Energy Modulation and 2 x Rare 35% Antiproton Mag Regulators, he pretty much decimates the field. I don't know if his claims are true, but its a build I'ld love to test out one of these days.

If another Tac player sees you mixing energy weapon types, they will chastise you to hell.

Really? Why is that? I've had a fair bit of luck mixing phaser and polaron beam arrays.

Lower weapons power == Lower damage

They are worried about the power drain that comes from of using weapons of different energy types. Personally, I find that the power drain from 2 energy types to be acceptable and does not significantly reduce my overall damage throughput.

This sounds like an experiment needs to be done. Since I have 7 ships left (I got rid of a bunch to make room), and all of them have Mk X & XI purple gear, it may be worth a shot. I've got 2 Rare Mag Regulators, and I have all the consoles and officers I need to make each build, so I'll see what happens when I put it all together and test it out.

Thing is, with my current build, and all weapons firing, my weapons energy never drops below 98. Still, we'll see how this all works out. To the laboratory!

Ok, but instead of having a polaron booster and a phaser booster, you'd get a lot more power out of 2 phasers and 2 phaser boosters...

Do the consoles stack?

 

[intrinsical]

Defense is more important to me than offense. Some of these PvPers are amazing. I've seen ships take continuous, sustained fire from half a dozen ships and almost shrug it off like it was nothing. I remember one ship, about 3 weeks back, that I saw in Ker'rat (A KDF BOP), that just couldn't be killed. 7 ships attacked him straight on, and his shields would fluctuate for a second, and never drop. That went on for a good 30 seconds, by which he then just hauled ass out of range in about 3 seconds.

I've been told by a PvPer that he can permanently hold off just about everything by cycling through a combination of 2 x Tactical Teams, 2 x Transfer Shield Strengths, 2 X Beam Fire At Wills and an occasional Polarize Hull and/or Tractor Beam Repulsors. Yup, fire at will for both offense and defense. I thought it was strange until he pointed out that fire at will takes down the targetable incoming projectiles such as the infamous Elite Tactical Cube's ghost torpedos.

He further claims that with 2 x Directed Energy Modulation and 2 x Rare 35% Antiproton Mag Regulators, he pretty much decimates the field. I don't know if his claims are true, but its a build I'ld love to test out one of these days.



Lower weapons power == Lower damage

They are worried about the power drain that comes from of using weapons of different energy types. Personally, I find that the power drain from 2 energy types to be acceptable and does not significantly reduce my overall damage throughput.

This sounds like an experiment needs to be done. Since I have 7 ships left (I got rid of a bunch to make room), and all of them have Mk X & XI purple gear, it may be worth a shot. I've got 2 Rare Mag Regulators, and I have all the consoles and officers I need to make each build, so I'll see what happens when I put it all together and test it out.

Thing is, with my current build, and all weapons firing, my weapons energy never drops below 98. Still, we'll see how this all works out. To the laboratory!

If it helps, he's a science officer using the freebie Odyssey with 8 AP Beam Arrays. And I think he did mentioned he had 2 x 35% EPS Flow Regulators to make sure he can sustain the dps.

Here is his BOFF layout
Tactical Lt.: Fire at will 1 , Fire at will 2
Engineer Cmdr.: Emergency power to weapons 1, Directed energy modulation 1, Emergency power to shields 3, Directed energy modulation 3
Science Ensign: Polarize hull
Science Lt.: Science team 1, Tractor beam repulsors
Universal (Science) Lt. Cmdr.: Transfer shield strength 1, Transfer shield strength 2, Hazard emitters 3

 

[Amaris]

Looks like I'll be pulling the Odyssey out of moth balls, then. To the laboratory!

 

[CorporalClegg]

A STO vanity store would be selling stuff individually rather than in packs.

I don't see how that makes a difference. The quality or quantity of the items is irrelevant. And the items are grouped for convenience's sake.

Non the less, they were still items that appealed to the vanity of the player. Even the ships, for the most part, were that way. They did give a slight advantage, but it was totally negligible and could easily be compensated for with skill--you even told me you preferred using the standard AV Escort to the MVAM.

Most people buy the current ships to be/look different form others (i.e. vanity).

But these new ships (especially collectively) go well beyond that. They are total faceroll cheese and skill can only go so far. In fact, they'll probably only promote laziness and poor play.

And I can absolutely guarantee that it won't happen. Any MMO developer knows that the absolute best gear has to be purchased through hard work and hard work alone. That's why we have to constantly run STFs, collecting EDCs and prototype techs just to get those rare Mk XIs.

But as I said, you'd need both the dilithium and the Tech. While every MMO developer may know that new content is important, all F2P companies know that MMOs are ultimately about gear and it still sells the best.

In fact, every F2P game ended up in a situation where people pretty much had to pay if they wanted the best gear.

In some cases, it's a content thing. Turbine, for example, likes to make you pay for the new stuff. In LotRO, you just had to pay a strait up fee to unlock the dungeons. In DDO, you got normal and hard for free. You had to pay for elite and epic (where all the purple stuff was).

PWE has traditionally done it with some kind of in-game customization mechanic. For example, a new dungeon comes out and you run it over and over with your mage until the kickass purple staff drops. You win roll and be on your merry way. But that's only HALF the battle, because said staff is weaker out of the box than the green one you picked up 10 levels ago and customized.

So now you have two options: you can whip out the credit card, make a few clicks, and instantly have the best fire crits on the server, OR you can spend hours and hours (probably twice as long as it took to get the damn thing in the first place) grinding out the stuff you need to make it equally as powerful.

Since they can't really introduce a new mechanic into the game, I figure they'll do it via crafting.

Say they launch of set of STFs that, instead of the Borg tech you get a recipes for each of the items and special unique mats to use in conjunction with the regular Tier 6 and Rare mats and of course the ones you buy with dilithium.

It would just be that the # of special unreplicable materials you'd need would cost several weeks' worth of 8k a day grinding. So people would be tempted to just buy some with c-points.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

A rather curious edit to the original Bortas' stats has occurred: Standard Cloaking Device (at 96% cloaking effectiveness)

That's up from the original stated 80%. I've heard of them nerfing something before it hit the test server, like the quad cannons and the B'Rel retrofit, but rarely actually boosting something.

 

[sbk1234]

Here's my next bonehead question. Is there a way of increasing the number of bridge officers I can have, without spending real money? If there is, I can't find it. thanks.

 

[Amaris]

Here's my next bonehead question. Is there a way of increasing the number of bridge officers I can have, without spending real money? If there is, I can't find it. thanks.

Yeah. Go to the Personnel section in Earth Spacedock:

You can buy Bridge Officers with dilithium.
You can also buy them off the Exchange with energy credits.

If you mean increasing them beyond the current maximum slots, you can convert dilithium to C-store points and use them to buy more bridge slots. That's it, other than buying c-points with cash.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Sweet, we get to keep the space suit.

 

[intrinsical]

A STO vanity store would be selling stuff individually rather than in packs.

I don't see how that makes a difference. The quality or quantity of the items is irrelevant. And the items are grouped for convenience's sake.

Non the less, they were still items that appealed to the vanity of the player. Even the ships, for the most part, were that way. They did give a slight advantage, but it was totally negligible and could easily be compensated for with skill--you even told me you preferred using the standard AV Escort to the MVAM.

Most people buy the current ships to be/look different form others (i.e. vanity).

But these new ships (especially collectively) go well beyond that. They are total faceroll cheese and skill can only go so far. In fact, they'll probably only promote laziness and poor play.

I'm not going to go further in depth on vanity models since it doesn't really factor into our discussion. All I'll say is that most companies don't go for a pure 100% vanity model. Instead, most game companies (even Zynga) sells items that offer varying degrees of vanity and performance. And players buy items not just for vanity, but also for better performance.

In fact, every F2P game ended up in a situation where people pretty much had to pay if they wanted the best gear.

In some cases, it's a content thing. Turbine, for example, likes to make you pay for the new stuff. In LotRO, you just had to pay a strait up fee to unlock the dungeons. In DDO, you got normal and hard for free. You had to pay for elite and epic (where all the purple stuff was).

PWE has traditionally done it with some kind of in-game customization mechanic. For example, a new dungeon comes out and you run it over and over with your mage until the kickass purple staff drops. You win roll and be on your merry way. But that's only HALF the battle, because said staff is weaker out of the box than the green one you picked up 10 levels ago and customized.

So now you have two options: you can whip out the credit card, make a few clicks, and instantly have the best fire crits on the server, OR you can spend hours and hours (probably twice as long as it took to get the damn thing in the first place) grinding out the stuff you need to make it equally as powerful.

Since they can't really introduce a new mechanic into the game, I figure they'll do it via crafting.

Say they launch of set of STFs that, instead of the Borg tech you get a recipes for each of the items and special unique mats to use in conjunction with the regular Tier 6 and Rare mats and of course the ones you buy with dilithium.

It would just be that the # of special unreplicable materials you'd need would cost several weeks' worth of 8k a day grinding. So people would be tempted to just buy some with c-points.

I now have a better understanding of your perspective. And from your perspective as a player you're right that if you want epic items, it ultimately requires an investment of both money and time.

A game developer on the other hand would say the main service they offer players is fun, interesting and exciting gameplay and that any epic items that a player gains is a consequence of playing the game well. So to game devs, what the player is paying for is a fun gaming session, not epic items.

That is why Turbine sells adventure packs for both LOTRO and DDO. They're selling the players an adventure in new and exotic places. And if they do well in the adventure, reward them for their efforts.

As for Cryptic, I still view them as a company that mainly cater to casual players. As an example, after many years and many many petition from players for more, CoH still only has ONE single endgame raid encounter. STO does not even have a single raid encounter and 95% of the missions are soloable. In contrast, SOE and Blizzard are what I consider as companies who cater to hardcore players. That is why EQ, EQ2, WoW all offers a large variety of endgame raid encounters demanding 30+ players coordinating an attack.

If STO were operated by SOE or Blizzard, I would completely agree with you because SOE/Blizzard will sell us the Odyssey, then require us to play the game to unlock advanced Odyssey features.

For Cryptic, I see the 3 Odyssey variants as Cryptic's attempt at giving casual players a solid starship so that they can have fun in STFs and in the process earn some money. So no, I think all players will need to do is pay 2000 c-store points and the Odyssey is theirs. There is nothing more to unlock.

 

[sbk1234]

... And how do you increase dilithium so you can convert it for C-Store points?

 

[Amaris]

... And how do you increase dilithium so you can convert it for C-Store points?

Missions. For example, "Assisting the Deferi" missions from Ambassador Surah can net you 3600 dilithium. Commander Makza has missions to Ker'rat, which can net you 1400 dilithium each completed mission (3 Ker'rat instances). You can stack it up doing those. There are lots more. You can also get dilithium from your DOFF missions.

 

[intrinsical]

Those are high level missions. For lower levels, you can get 480 dilithium by correctly answering the daily quiz given by Lt Viala in Starfleet Academy ( The cheat sheet can be found at http://www.stowiki.org/Lore ). You also get 1440 dilithium for Lt. Grall for exploring 3 unexplored sectors in star clusters. Cmdr. Selyn also gives dilithium for completing Foundry missions.

 

[sbk1234]

I correctly completed my daily question, and no dilithium. Grrrrrrrr. Or am I just too stupid to find it?

 

[Amaris]

I correctly completed my daily question, and no dilithium. Grrrrrrrr. Or am I just too stupid to find it?

Did you contact the quest officer upon completion of the questions?

 

[intrinsical]

I correctly completed my daily question, and no dilithium. Grrrrrrrr. Or am I just too stupid to find it?

Which daily mission? If its the foundry mission, you have to contact Cmdr. Selyn to start the mission first before doing a foundry mission.

 

[JRS]

I was playing the last mission of the current FE yesterday, with three of my toons.It was a quite nice mission and it was fun to get to keep the spacesuit.
I noticed also something interesting about the dialogue.
The NPC dialogue was pretty much the same, but I noticed that my Vulcan toon was replying to it in a very Vulcan style. In the airlock she was talking about something "The needs of the many.." and in the end Captain Kurland got "Live long and prosper".
My tactical toon Gilmore on the got very different dialogue at the start with the Vorta, something about "behaving better than your previous clone". I think this was because the Vorta NPC died on the previous FE(He fell from a bridge, I think).
Anyway, I though that was pretty cool.