Star Trek Novels and Canon

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Although I think Nemesis was a deeply flawed film, I actually thought the part about Data's death was tremendous. In a way, it's the ultimate completion of his character arc in his quest to be more human--what could be more human, after all, than making the decision to sacrifice yourself to save your friends and loved ones?

A great many people compare it to Spock's sacrifice at the end of Khan, but I actually think it's the exact opposite: Spock sacrificed himself because it was the logical thing to do; Data sacrificed himself because it was the human thing to do.

Nemesis is dreadful on so many levels! It is really hard for me to restrain myself but I better do because when I start it would be difficult to stop.

Datas death annoyed me immensely. First of all, I remember what especially actor Brent Spiner said, Data has to die because he can`t play him indefinitely. What arrogance and short sightedness! First, Data is an Android. Even a female actor could play that character. Second, aging is not a problem. Data even tried in the past to look older (ok, it was a clumsy attempt, but nevertheless) in order to better fit in with his mortal friends.

My first thought was, sarcastically, great, Brent Spiner got his wish after all - and for what? Data was a character with enormous potential who was sacrificed for shock value.

I didn`t feel any sorrow, any loss at that time - I first of all was annoyed at this decision and the clumsy execution of it.

What happened reminds me a bit of a scene between Q and Worf: "What do I have to do to convince you that I am human?" "Die". (something like that)

It was a cliche so much into the face, I didn`t feel anything noble happened here.

OK, I stop now.

 

[LunaMaiden]

As for books not being Canon I tend to think of all these books as a universe all its own. We know watching Trek that there are numerous parelel universes. So I think of the books in that way.

As for Nemesis not being a good movie name me one of the TNG movies that was really good? First Contact was the best of the four but even it fell short of what it could've been same with Generations and Nemesis had potential but fell way short as for Insurer still trying to figure out how they could've wasted a movie on that drivel that at the most could only work as an episode nothing epic about it that said run to the movie theater to see it. I laughed at the whole the movies were done to appeal to a wider audience not just fans of the series when its the fans primarily going to see them you would think they'd have learned this with The Wrath of Khan arguably one of the best Trek movies made.

 

[Extrocomp]

There are people on the internet saying that Discovery has now been erased from canon due to a throwaway gag in the Lower Decks finale.

 

[FredH]

There are people on the internet saying that Discovery has now been erased from canon due to a throwaway gag in the Lower Decks finale.

And they are all both wrong and silly. They’ll keep saying so, of course, but their doing so will continue not to matter to the producers, and rightly so.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I do think the "similar threads" thing is causing issues, I've had to stop myself posting in what turned out to be very old threads that caught my eye. This one is from 2008.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I do think the "similar threads" thing is causing issues, I've had to stop myself posting in what turned out to be very old threads that caught my eye. This one is from 2008.

Just a small reminder for those who might not be aware: Posting to old threads in TrekLit

That being said... I prefer to keep the focus on Trek literature in this forum, so if you wish to discuss Discovery or Lower Decks, I would ask that you please do so in the forums dedicated to those shows. The odd comparison to the shows or a brief tangent is of course OK, but generally speaking, our primary focus should be the books.

 

[David cgc]

I haven’t read (re-read, I guess) the whole thread, but it’s interesting that we’re now in a new status quo where there are few enough books, and few enough episodes, with long enough production cycles, that it actually would be practical to incorporate books into the canon, though I doubt it’s desired by anyone in a position to make that happen.

 

[KRAD]

Nobody creating a mutlimillion dollar TV show or movie that reaches an audience in the millions and higher is going to be forced to be beholden to a novel or that reached less than 10% (often less than 1%) of the audience for that TV show or movie.

 

[Christopher]

Nobody creating a mutlimillion dollar TV show or movie that reaches an audience in the millions and higher is going to be forced to be beholden to a novel or that reached less than 10% (often less than 1%) of the audience for that TV show or movie.

Heck, the makers of ongoing series aren't even beholden to their own prior canon. Look how many times Trek has rewritten its own canonical history, which is actually far more consistent than a lot of long-running fictional continuities, e.g. Marvel Comics or Doctor Who. The creators of a canon can change it however they want, since it's all just pretend anyway. It's the tie-in authors who are beholden to the canon, because it's not ours and we're just borrowing it with permission. (In the same way that the owner of a building can remodel it in ways a mere renter wouldn't be allowed to.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

As a practical matter, making the novels canon would require the producers of the television programs/movies to keep track of everything that happened in them to make sure there were no contradictions. That's a hefty amount of work to add to the already substantial pressures of producing modern TV and film.

Correct. And, via publishing numbers, it is known that the readership for the licensed tie-in books and comics is usually about 1-2% of the viewing audience.

 

[JD]

Nobody creating a mutlimillion dollar TV show or movie that reaches an audience in the millions and higher is going to be forced to be beholden to a novel or that reached less than 10% (often less than 1%) of the audience for that TV show or movie.

Even Star Wars, which made a big deal about everything being canon and staying consistent, has repeatedly had TV series contradict the books and comics, and now a new comic book series has several contradictions with an earlier book. So if even the franchise that is the loudest about "everything is canon" can't stick to that, there's very little chance a franchise like Star Trek will do it.

 

[Oz Trekkie]

Nobody creating a mutlimillion dollar TV show or movie that reaches an audience in the millions and higher is going to be forced to be beholden to a novel or that reached less than 10% (often less than 1%) of the audience for that TV show or movie.

I'm very happy to be part of the 1%

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah I don't give a shit if a book is canon or not. If it's good, it's good.

Just like how knowing how it all ends in Coda ends doesn't put me off from reading (or re-reading) pre-Code books.

Same with Star Wars, I still occasionally read a new EU book, I don't care if that continuity is technically a dead end now (Sorta, the Old Republic MMO is still running and adding story, and that's in the EU just 3600 years before most of the literature in the franchise)

 

[veritech]

For the most part I roll with the punches when it comes to retro-active continuity changes. Sometimes, however I have a more difficult time accepting it. For instance, Discovery's new look Klingons really threw me for a loop. I didn't have a problem with the Kelvin timeline Klingons because that was a whole new continuity, but Discovery was supposed to take place in the prime timeline and so radically changed the make-up and prosthetics. It was a tough change to swallow.

 

[Christopher]

For the most part I roll with the punches when it comes to retro-active continuity changes. Sometimes, however I have a more difficult time accepting it. For instance, Discovery's new look Klingons really threw me for a loop. I didn't have a problem with the Kelvin timeline Klingons because that was a whole new continuity, but Discovery was supposed to take place in the prime timeline and so radically changed the make-up and prosthetics. It was a tough change to swallow.

People had the same reaction when ST:TMP changed the Klingon makeup in 1979. Roddenberry told them to pretend that they'd always looked that way and TOS had just gotten it wrong.

Besides, Kelvin isn't a new continuity. It's canonically an alternate timeline that branched off in 2233, and thus should've been the same before then (and please, nobody point out the "retroactive change" idea that the revised ST Encyclopedia proposed years later; I'm well aware of it, and everyone misattributes it to Simon Pegg and reads way too much into it). But since it's all a work of fiction and imagination, its art department was free to reinterpret the designs of the aliens, ships, uniforms, and everything else, the same way TMP did.

 

[Therin of Andor]

but Discovery was supposed to take place in the prime timeline and so radically changed the make-up and prosthetics. It was a tough change to swallow.

There was some early publicity stuff that mentioned the 24 great Klingon Houses and that on the Sarcophagus vessel in the DSC premiere, we would meet representatives of about 12 of the Houses. Therefore lots of variety in skin tones, bony head crests and even clothing design. Likewise, ST III had given variety to the foreheads and crests we knew from TMP.

That gave plenty of leeway, I thought. And then we had the albino Klingon, Voq, who was treated with little respect by the other Houses and which, for me, brought back memories of The Albino in DS9's "Blood Oath" (whom Memory Alpha resists calling a subspecies or cline of Klingon) and the novel, "Excelsior: Forged in Fire", but also Moron (later Bernie and Ambassador Kobry) in the DC TOS movie comics and the novel, "TNG: Strike Zone".

 

[Tuskin38]

There was some early publicity stuff that mentioned the 24 great Klingon Houses and that on the Sarcophagus vessel in the DSC premiere, we would meet representatives of about 12 of the Houses.

Side note, funny thing about that.

One of the Memory-Alpha pages talking about the Klingon Great Houses had mentioned '24 Great Houses' from almost the very beginning of the site's existence and no one bothered to fact check it. It wasn't until a few months before Discovery's airing that I decided to find the canon source for that that claim.. and couldn't, there wasn't one. I pointed it out and it was promptly removed from the page (and then added back again once Discovery aired)

Maybe the Discovery writers got it from that error on M-A lol

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

That's worth a note if you can confirm they did.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Side note, funny thing about that.

One of the Memory-Alpha pages talking about the Klingon Great Houses had mentioned '24 Great Houses' from almost the very beginning of the site's existence and no one bothered to fact check it. It wasn't until a few months before Discovery's airing that I decided to find the canon source for that that claim.. and couldn't, there wasn't one. I pointed it out and it was promptly removed from the page (and then added back again once Discovery aired)

Maybe the Discovery writers got it from that error on M-A lol

I recall it was a Paramount press release.

What was MA's starting date? I think a lot of early stuff on Klingons had come from the 1983 FASA materials written for the Klingon reference book for which Trek novelist, John M Ford, was a contributor. So not canon, but influential of canon, eg. like The Black Fleet.

 

[Christopher]

What was MA's starting date?

According to the site's About page, "this project began in November 2003."