Wasn't that in one of the alternate universes though? I don't remember Madden on the Enterprise with the regular crew in Q&A, but I could be mistaken.
Star Trek Novels and Canon
- Thread starter JPW
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yes. which is where he belongs, mr i-can-do-TNGR-better-than-the-pros
It wasn't about Madden. It was about Worf. It was decided that it was more interesting to explore Worf's transition to the role of Picard's first officer. After all, Worf is a canonical and very popular character. Madden is a footnote, a bit of trivia that most filmgoers aren't even aware of. That's fine for fanfiction, which is all about satisfying every imaginable niche interest, but for more mainstream fiction, it made more sense to take advantage of the opportunity for exploring Worf in a new way.
No need to be cheeky, I didn't say I was doing it better, my readers did. Feel free to go and have a look and make up your own mind. I wouldn't mind more readers, maybe you could tell me what could be improved.
I understand that, and I think Worf as XO is brilliant. But instead of bringing in and discarding crappy characters as has been done over the last three books I think it would have been interesting to see what the writers would have done with Madden, who I think had great potential as a character, if written well.
I don't think the Madden from that deleted scene had any potential as a character. He was purely a plot device, serving no purpose but to be the butt of a lame joke. Any personality ascribed to the character in followup fiction would have to be the invention of the author, and the character could just as easily be given a different name in that case.
Honestly, I don't understand the fascination some people have for this guy. I know people are drawn to blank slates because they can read whatever they want into them, but this blank slate wasn't even in the actual movie. I mean, why isn't there similar fascination about the Excelsior crewman Christian Slater played, or about the anonymous starship captains seen in The Voyage Home? Why does this particular bit character, who technically never even existed, draw such disproportionate interest?
Honestly, I don't understand the fascination some people have for this guy. I know people are drawn to blank slates because they can read whatever they want into them, but this blank slate wasn't even in the actual movie. I mean, why isn't there similar fascination about the Excelsior crewman Christian Slater played, or about the anonymous starship captains seen in The Voyage Home? Why does this particular bit character, who technically never even existed, draw such disproportionate interest?
beats me. i'd like to see more of Madge Sinclair's Saratoga captain, personally.
which was why I used her in my fan-fic very briefly...
which was why I used her in my fan-fic very briefly...
Didn't she show up in Forged in Fire or something recently?
The interest, in my case, is that although the scene ended up on the cutting room floor, it still made its way to the DVD's deleted scenes and Youtube and such and therefore became a scene in the film. Of course people are going to have a perverse fascination for characters like that and why it keeps being harped on by fans of all stripes. I decided to use him in my fanfiction as a temporary character but he kind of grew from there and my readers liked him so I kept him in. It worked for me. If I'd never seen that deleted scene I'd never know about him or have any wonder about what might have been.
ETA: Greg, go to Youtube and type in Madden Nemesis and see what comes up. It'll be a few minutes you'll want back, but you'll understand my weirdness. Maybe
Because, unlike those faces who, as you pointed out, are essentially anonymous bodies, the character of Martin Madden was slated to occupy what had historically been an important, high-profile position. Madden might just have been a walk-on, but he was a walk-on that was going to replace a permanent character, not someone who delivers a padd and vanishes forever more. So it naturally follows that people are interested in the new first officer of the Enterprise more than Starfleet Officer Number 4 passing by in the corridor.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
I didn't know either. I had to look it up to know what was being discussed.
No, it really, really, really did not. If it were a scene in the film, it would have been IN the film. If a museum displays leftover pieces of marble alongside a sculpture, that doesn't make them part of the sculpture. They're just discards cast off in the creative process and subsequently displayed alongside the actual creation. Deleted scenes are not part of the film. That's why they're deleted. That's why they're in a separate section on the DVD.
This is the problem with DVDs. Getting a glimpse at deleted scenes is fun, but their ubiquity on DVDs has led people to misunderstand how the editing process works, to forget that there's a difference between the film and the material rejected from it.
I mean, honestly. The TMP DVD has deleted footage of the abortive V'Ger Memory Wall sequence, but that doesn't mean that Kirk actually went inside V'Ger alongside Spock. Just because it was filmed doesn't mean it happened in the story.
That's like saying if I looked at a pair of pants in a store, thought about buying them, tried them on, but in the end left them behind, they still became part of my wardrobe.
Well, now, I am truly and completely confused. Because if this is a character you created, from only the slightest of scraps left on the cutting room floor, you should be grateful nobody gives a damn about the "real" character, and can't complain that he's not like the "real" Madden. Sounds like a win for you.
I always figured the fascination over Madden came from the fact he was played by Steven Culp.
Why, what's special about Steven Culp?
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Intellectually, of course I'm aware of that. Creatively, I have an interest in the XO that never was.
It is a win for me. I am interested in what you all might have done with him had you used him in the fiction. You should see some of the weird and wonderful variations on canon characters that some of my fanfic buddies have gone with. Although we're playing in the same sandbox, we don't have oversight and some of us tend to go in some very bizarre directions, whereas others, like myself, try to stick to canon as if there was oversight. If that makes any sense.
As Madge Alexander-Sinclair. She was Captain Alexander in the ST IV novelization, and Margaret "Madge" Alexander in "Crucible: Kirk".
This has been extended to a fuller homage to the original actress, Madge Sinclair.
And the novelization. As does the return of Wesley Crusher from Traveling the galaxy, to take up a position on the USS Titan.
I confess I've never watched the deleted scenes from NEMESIS. Hell, I've only watched NEMESIS once.
But far be it from me to question anyone else's obscure fannish in-jokes . . . !
The one must-see cut scene from NEM is the Picard-Data ready-room scene. It features some great character/thematic material whose removal really undermined the effectiveness of the film's story flow, because it laid the groundwork for why Data's sacrifice was meaningful. It was cut because it slowed down the pace early in the film and pace rules all in cinema, but this was one cut that went too far.
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