Star Trek Novels and Canon

[Therin of Andor]

Hmm... I know the character was written as Saavik in early drafts of the script, but Saavik wasn't Gene's creation, so I'm not sure why he'd care.

This anecdote was around during the making of ST VI, and then Nick Meyer repeats it on the ST VI DVD SE commentary. GR, in his capacity as Executive Consultant (ie. commenting on all draft scripts, even though no one had to listen) always used to tell the fanbase that if a ST script displeased him so much he'd have his name withheld from the credits, so we'd know that he disapproved.

He almost withheld his credit from ST II (and Majel had asked not to be written in as Chapel to show her support for GR). He almost withheld for ST V, but settled for claiming some elements to be "apocryphyl". For ST VI, he wrote a memo to Nick Meyer that Saavik shouldn't be a traitor because the fans held her as a "beloved character" - much to Meyer's amusement since Saavik had been Meyer's own creation, and she had been one of GR's sticking points about ST II.

 

[Defcon]

I guess there are many different versions out there why it wasn't Saavik.

The one I heard most often was simply that both previous actresses weren't available and both Catrall and the production staff weren't happy with the notion that Catrall would have been the third actress playing the same character, so they created a new one.

 

[Christopher]

^^I don't think I've ever heard that version.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I haven't heard that version either.

The one I hear the most is Roddenberry balking at the idea of Saavik being a traitor.

 

[Greg Cox]

I guess there are many different versions out there why it wasn't Saavik.

The one I heard most often was simply that both previous actresses weren't available and both Catrall and the production staff weren't happy with the notion that Catrall would have been the third actress playing the same character, so they created a new one.

That certainly has the ring of plausibility.

 

[Trent Roman]

Ring of plausibility... I just now realize how that sounds like an item in an RPG. "I remind you that my paladin is wearing the Ring of Plausibility, the Amulet of Likelihood, and my +2 Probability Boots."

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Amy Sisson]

That certainly has the ring of plausibility.

Agreed.

I think I liked that movie more than most people did. I also don't think it's a bad thing to have more new characters in general, and in particular to have more Vulcans with significant roles in the overall story that is Trek. So I was perfectly fine with Cattrall as a new character instead of Saavik.

 

[Trent Roman]

My impression was that Undiscovered Country was generally well received...? Certainly my favourite of the TOS films.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Then I suggest taking a trip over to the Trek Movies forum. A lot of people over there don't like it.

Also, I think we've wandered a bit off topic...

 

[Therin of Andor]

The one I heard most often was simply that both previous actresses weren't available and both Catrall and the production staff weren't happy with the notion that Catrall would have been the third actress playing the same character, so they created a new one.

That's all part of the same story. Nick Meyer was planning to ignore Roddenberry's directive and use Saavik anyway, since he'd created the character. Alley was not interested in returning to the role (or wanted more money, or was unavailable, depending on which tangent the story goes). Robin Curtis was quoted as being disappointed that Meyer never sought her out.

Meyer went back to his first choice for ST II: Kim Catrall. She wanted to turn down the role, not wishing to be the third actress to play the character. So she and Meyer crafted a new character. She suggested naming her Eris, and Meyer added the Val' prefix. (The shooting script actually says "Val'eris".)

In the end, it looked like Roddenberry had gotten his way on not portraying saavik as the traitor.

 

[JD]

My impression was that Undiscovered Country was generally well received...? Certainly my favourite of the TOS films.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Me too. Although for me I put it in a second place tie with Wrath of Kahn, and my favorite is Voyage Home.

Ok back on topic now.

 

[TheAlmanac]

I think I liked that movie more than most people did.

Well, you can add me to the list of people who call Star Trek VI their favourite Trek movie.

Perhaps you've just been in close proximity to some of the haters?

I also don't think it's a bad thing to have more new characters in general, and in particular to have more Vulcans with significant roles in the overall story that is Trek. So I was perfectly fine with Cattrall as a new character instead of Saavik.

I agree, and had no problems with Valeris not being Saavik. It's a big universe.

At any rate...

So, to what extent have the other novels incorporated the "non-canonical" information from the movie novelisations? Saavik's specific origins on Hellguard originated with those, did they not?

It's interesting how not-quite-canon information like Saavik's Vulcan/Romulan heritage is added into the novel tapestry, while other information of similar status (like, say, most of the cutting-room-floor Nemesis stuff) is not...

 

[captcalhoun]

that's because the Saavik stuff was good and the Nemesis stuff was complete crap.

 

[KRAD]

It's interesting how not-quite-canon information like Saavik's Vulcan/Romulan heritage is added into the novel tapestry, while other information of similar status (like, say, most of the cutting-room-floor Nemesis stuff) is not...

The point is that we have the option to use stuff that was cut from the final movie. Sometimes, the option is to use it -- like Peter Preston and Saavik's heritage -- and sometimes the option is to not use it -- like that pathetic embarrassment of an idiotic scene with Martin Madden.

 

[LightningStorm]

...like that pathetic embarrassment of an idiotic scene with Martin Madden.

So, how do you really feel? I mean, don't hold back or anything.

lol

 

[Red Ranger]

Well, an elegant solution would be to first, acknowledge that canon means all filmed ST. Anything else in the novels and other tie-ins ought to be considered gravy, unless the info from those other sources finds its way into the filmed version, as noted above in several examples, like using Vonda McIntyre's choice of first name of Hikaru for Sulu. I myself choose to think of the tie-ins as part of my own personal canon. In other words, I think of the whole fictional ST universe and choose to include other visions in the main body of canon -- hence, personal canon. -- RR

 

[Christopher]

The point is that we have the option to use stuff that was cut from the final movie. Sometimes, the option is to use it -- like Peter Preston and Saavik's heritage -- and sometimes the option is to not use it -- like that pathetic embarrassment of an idiotic scene with Martin Madden.

And even a little bit from the Madden scene got into the books (not counting that alternate-reality bit from Q&A): Titan is described as having seat harnesses like the one on Picard's new chair in that scene.

 

[Therin of Andor]

to what extent have the other novels incorporated the "non-canonical" information from the movie novelisations?

Off the top of my head:

TMP-n's Lori Ciana is a key player in "The Lost Years" saga, and is referenced in "Ex Machina".

ST II-n's Genesis scientists' relatives appear in ST III-n, and a McIntyre description of a male Deltan with long hair (in ST IV-n) ends up confusing matters with the Efrosian UFP President, who even ends up with a name inspired by the Deltans (in ST II-n), which continues in novels to this day.
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/2006/11/truth-about-efrosians-pard_116269248336471480.html

ST III-n's "Mr Adventure" (called Lt Heisenberg in the novelization) appears in a "Lost Era" novel, but I can't recall if the name went with him.

Captain Alexander (Madge Sinclair) was named in ST IV-n, and other authors have elaborated her as Margaret "Madge" Alexander-Sinclair in other novels.

The extended name invented for Admiral Bob Bennett (the character played by Harve Bennett), used a few times in the regular novels - but canonically just "Bob" - is not the one chosen by Dillard ("Admiral Caflisch") for her ST V-n.

 

[BrotherBenny]

It's interesting how not-quite-canon information like Saavik's Vulcan/Romulan heritage is added into the novel tapestry, while other information of similar status (like, say, most of the cutting-room-floor Nemesis stuff) is not...

The point is that we have the option to use stuff that was cut from the final movie. Sometimes, the option is to use it -- like Peter Preston and Saavik's heritage -- and sometimes the option is to not use it -- like that pathetic embarrassment of an idiotic scene with Martin Madden.

I'm using Madden as a character in my fanfiction to good effect (so my readers tell me) so what was the problem with using the character of Madden in the novels, and not making him some kind of dumbass who can't tell when his chain is being yanked. You could have done anything with him, introduced him and killed him off, or whatever. I think it would have been quite interesting.

 

[Therin of Andor]

You could have done anything with him, introduced him

Which KRAD did, in "Q & A".