Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 3x09 - "Trusted Sources"

[Cr0sis21]

I was so, so happy the Texas-class ship wasn't a Section 31 vessel.
Lot of fun to see Starbase 80. I'm glad to see that not everything is squeaky-clean perfect in every corner of the Federation.
Nice twist at the end. I already was assuming Mariner didn't trash everyone in the interview, but I was waiting for the reveal that it was someone else doing all the intentional badmouthing (Like Migleemo or something). Nice surprise to see it was just prior incidents taken way out of context, a common theme we've seen in every Trek series at one time or another.

 

[Anduinel]

Not a counter-argument per se, but I noted that the Onarans were very passive-aggressive towards Starfleet. And, it seems like they traded one form of addiction for another. I think the subtext from the Onaran's interaction with the visiting Starfleet actually mirrors your criticism this part of the episode.

That's how I viewed it too. The Federation did the bare minimum while assuaging their conscience previously, so the Onarans aren't terribly interested in letting them have a do over or pat themselves on the back because the Onarans managed to put together some kind of cultural coping mechanism out of the aftermath.

 

[Noname Given]

An 8.

I like that they again went opposite to their own trope of Mariner always being the one who causes the issue by going against the grain. Here she just DID speak from the heart; and it was Freeman who was the one presenting a false image and the crew just being honest and just relating what ACTUALLY happened during their tours of duty pointed that pout in spades to the reporter.

I also like that they kept Mariner in character, and yeah, given what happened it's totally in character for her to resign her commission and go find something else she likes with someone she likes.

I honestly thought the whole 'secret Breen incursion' felt rather contrived here though - and the automated savior ship showed up rather fast, so meh on that bit.

Also interesting that we have a firm in universe date for S3 here, as if the Brekka first contact happened in TNG S1 (which Data stated in TNG S1 - The Neutral Zone) occurred in 2364, and this episode takes place 17 years later, that puts LD S3 in 2381.

Spoiler

Also, I have a feeling the whole fully automated Texas Class will be back, and controlled by Peanut Hamper and maybe AGIMUS <--- one ship of the Class each

 

[Anduinel]

Also, does it seem to anyone else that the new admiral might be setting Freeman up for a fall in a big way? The first couple of times he showed up with crap news/assignments, I didn't think anything of it - someone has to deliver the plot hook, after all. But after this week, I am suspicious.

 

[Super Grover]

I'm giving high marks this week, on equal rating as Crisis point 2.

whoever spoke on the convenience of the new automated Texas class ships (which I thought was a captains yacht) showing up in time to dispatch the Breen, yeah that makes sense really. they needed a test, the knew the Breen were out there, and just needed an opportunity; might as well just send out the Enterprise of the Cali Cass ships.

cant help but feel the pie eating contest was a Breaking bad reference.

Mariner really has improved as a character, and this time she wasn't out of line at all and totally spoke from her heart. At least she can go back to hating Jennifer though.

Starfleet needs to do more follow ups, seriously

Oh Snap! Starbase 80!

Yes! Texas class ships! Too bad they're automated. I would suggest a Lower Decks spinoff about a TX class ship perhaps Mike McMahon and Mike Judge should collaborate.

 

[Dukhat]

On a side note: I don't care for this episode absolving Picard's action on Onaras. What he did was cruel just so that he could uphold his sacrosanct view of the Prime Directive. He left that entire planet to go through a severe withdrawal without medical aide. And withdrawl is the most dangerous aspect of coming off a substance, particularly opioids and alcohol.

This episode glosses over all that, saying they went through some "dark period". As a substance abuse survivor, I didn't appreciate this aspect of the episode. And while I like "Symbosis," as it's an indictment on Big Pharma in hindsight, I still side with Beverly. Picard's non-solution was inhumane.

I'm still struggling to figure out how Picard's actions were wrong, or needed absolving. They first retcon his actions to say that Picard deliberately blocked communication between the two planets, when in fact he did no such thing. The Enterprise comes upon two non-Federation planets in which one planet is actively exploiting the other for financial gain under the guise of helping them cure their disease by addicting them to the 'cure.' Despite the clear ethical dilemma going on, Picard cannot interfere because he has no jurisdiction in the affairs of these alien planets, and uses that to his advantage by not giving the Ornarans the coils they need to keep their ship going. His ethical stance is that these two alien races must eventually solve their own technological problems if they want to keep this 'symbiosis' going. He in no way 'cuts off communications' between the two planets or interferes with their societies or actions, and he was under no obligation to check up on them, because they were not Federation members. He did everything absolutely correct as far as the rules he was obligated to follow, and Beverly was wrong to think he should have done otherwise (and she should know better, being a Starfleet officer herself.)

And to be honest, I'm not sure why the Cerritos even needed to check up on them. It's not like either planet asked them to come. The Ornarans didn't even want or need their help (which, of course, fed right into the plot of the episode.) They weren't Federation members and the Federation was under no obligation to do anything for them.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I'm still struggling to figure out how Picard's actions were wrong, or needed absolving. They first retcon his actions to say that Picard deliberately blocked communication between the two planets, when in fact he did no such thing. The Enterprise comes upon two non-Federation planets in which one planet is actively exploiting the other for financial gain under the guise of helping them cure their disease by addicting them to the 'cure.' Despite the clear ethical dilemma going on, Picard cannot interfere because he has no jurisdiction in the affairs of these alien planets, and uses that to his advantage by not giving the Ornarans the warp coils they need to keep their ship going. His ethical stance is that these two alien races must eventually solve their own technological problems if they want to keep this 'symbiosis' going. He in no way 'cuts off communications' between the two planets or interferes with their societies or actions, and he was under no obligation to check up on them, because they were not Federation members. He did everything absolutely correct as far as the rules he was obligated to follow, and Beverly was wrong to think he should have done otherwise (and she should know better, being a Starfleet officer herself.)

And to be honest, I'm not sure why the Cerritos even needed to check up on them. It's not like either planet asked them to come. The Ornarans didn't even want or need their help (which, of course, fed right into the plot of the episode.) They weren't Federation members and the Federation was under no obligation to do anything for them.

Generally, it's because he knew about a crime and aided and abetted it by not informing one of the other's criminal activities.

 

[Charles Phipps]

On a side note: I don't care for this episode absolving Picard's action on Onaras. What he did was cruel just so that he could uphold his sacrosanct view of the Prime Directive. He left that entire planet to go through a severe withdrawal without medical aide. And withdrawl is the most dangerous aspect of coming off a substance, particularly opioids and alcohol.

This episode glosses over all that, saying they went through some "dark period". As a substance abuse survivor, I didn't appreciate this aspect of the episode. And while I like "Symbosis," as it's an indictment on Big Pharma in hindsight, I still side with Beverly. Picard's non-solution was inhumane.

Speaking as someone who has multiple relatives who are substance abuse survivors, I think the episode was much MORE effective at how horrifying this whole business was by leaving it understated. The middle part of the mural says everything without having to be overt.

The horror is basically left to the imagination of what those 14 years were like.

 

[Dukhat]

Generally, it's because he knew about a crime and aided and abetted it by not informing one of the other's criminal activities.

But that doesn't matter. It was not Picard's place to interfere in matters that did not concern him, despite whatever moral implications there were. That's what the Prime Directive is all about.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Also, does it seem to anyone else that the new admiral might be setting Freeman up for a fall in a big way? The first couple of times he showed up with crap news/assignments, I didn't think anything of it - someone has to deliver the plot hook, after all. But after this week, I am suspicious.

I suspect that he's behind Rutherford's implant as well.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Maybe Landru is pulling all the strings after all.

 

[Charles Phipps]

But that doesn't matter. It was not Picard's place to interfere in matters that did not concern him, despite whatever moral implications there were. That's what the Prime Directive is all about.

Which is effectively against 90% of all other Star Trek episodes and the ethos of the series. Remember the Prime Directive was a rule created to be pushed back on for on for drama. It's also not consistent with the Prime Directive because it's two warp capable species rather than the internal affairs of either alone.

This Picard effectively would argue that he should allow that con woman to pretend to be the Devil.

 

[Dukhat]

Which is effectively against 90% of all other Star Trek episodes and the ethos of the series. Remember the Prime Directive was a rule created to be pushed back on for on for drama. It's also not consistent with the Prime Directive because it's two warp capable species rather than the internal affairs of either alone.

This Picard effectively would argue that he should allow that con woman to pretend to be the Devil.

But they’re not warp-capable. The freighter only goes from Ornara to Brekka and back. It doesn’t have warp capability. The coils Picard was going to provide them were just electromagnetic coils to restrict the exhaust flow. It’s never said anywhere that they have warp capability.

And the other 90% of the episodes don’t matter, because we’re talking about this one only, and the circumstances therein, because this was the episode LDS chose to follow up on. And I still see nothing that indicates Picard did the wrong thing in this situation like LDS was implying.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Which is effectively against 90% of all other Star Trek episodes and the ethos of the series. Remember the Prime Directive was a rule created to be pushed back on for on for drama. It's also not consistent with the Prime Directive because it's two warp capable species rather than the internal affairs of either alone.

This Picard effectively would argue that he should allow that con woman to pretend to be the Devil.

Picard (and the 24th Century Starfleet) seems to view the Prime Directive how some now view the Second Amendment. He has a dogmatic, religious devotion to it. He's a letter of the law person not a spirit of the law.

Of course, I prefer Kirk's approach to the PD.

Shameless plug: This is something @Mark 2000 and I explored in the STAR TREK WEBCOMIC serial "Word of God," set just years before TNG.

Click here to read the entire thing.

 

[Dukhat]

I love those webcomics.

 

[Noname Given]

But that doesn't matter. It was not Picard's place to interfere in matters that did not concern him, despite whatever moral implications there were. That's what the Prime Directive is all about.

Then WHY did a Federation ship respond to the distress call on a non-warp capable ship?
^^^
If the non-interfereance PD applies to those two planets, it should apply to anyone/anything OF or FROM those two planets.

The selective rationalizing of the 'enlightened' 24th century human Jean-Luc Picard is somewhat hypocritical at times.

"Yeah, I'll interfere to save a crew, but leave the society it came from in sociological ruin because, hey, the Federation Prime Directive of TOTAL NON-INTERFERENCE (which I now invoke) makes it easy to clear my conscience in this case..."

 

[Dukhat]

Then WHY did a Federation ship respond to the distress call on a non-warp capable ship?
^^^
If the non-interfereance PD applies to those two planets, it should apply to anyone/anything OF or FROM those two planets.

The selective rationalizing of the 'enlightened' 24th century human Jean-Luc Picard is somewhat hypocritical at times.

"Yeah, I'll interfere to save a crew, but leave the society it came from in sociological ruin because, hey, the Federation Prime Directive of TOTAL NON-INTERFERENCE (which I now invoke) makes it easy to clear my conscience in this case..."

Picard had three options:

1. Ignore the distress call and let the freighter and its crew explode.

2. Save the passengers and return them to wherever they were going, and go on his merry way without getting further involved.

3. Save the passengers and interfere with their culture/society in order to stop the Brekkians from exploiting the Ornarans.


Since it was implied that the Ornarans and Brekkians were no stranger to aliens even though they weren’t warp-capable, that gave Picard the impetus to save them, based on either his own judgement or whatever Starfleet’s rules are concerning distress calls. And other than offering to give them new coils, he did nothing to interfere with the situation. So while it was effectively one hour of observing the situation, in the end Picard chose option #2. Which was the correct choice in this situation.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I only gave this a 7 because none of the humor really amused me. The story was fine though.

Starbase 80 seemed like something out of Futurama.

 

[Charles Phipps]

My impression was the two races were warp capable but just barely. Warp 1 vessels between both worlds. Which isn't brought up in the episode but within the parameters of the Prime Directive.

But my biggest regret about our first same sex interspecies relationship in Star Trek is that we never had a guy run up to them and say, "DINNAE LIGHT THAT CANDLE!"

 

[1987SpaceGuy]

the good
bad@ss Breen!!!
the reporter video showing how Mariner changed.
Mariner joining Indiana Jones Tomb Raider Lady.
the Dooplers + Security guy with weird language callbacks, the Dolphins

the LMAO (but also let me see it!)
"This is the biggest crew night of the year, not including pon farrs."

the bad
the overall contrived plot (keep Mariner away, walk trough their bunk bed section etc.)

the disappointments
like seriously, not even her LD/bunkbed friends or GF Jen believe her.

the other
Also think the Breen, NA Ship and (B)Admiral are connected somehow.
Wouldn't mind if we see some Mariner + Indiana Jones Tomb Raider Lady adventures