IV is a pre-destination paradox. What happened is supposed to happen. Though we might be able to argue the glasses exist in two places at once from 1987 onward since they obviously must have a creator.
Star Trek IV kills me
- Thread starter Captain Nebula
- Start date
Interesting point. Consider this as a possibility. The universe had to get to the 23rd century before McCoy bought the glasses. Therefore there must have been a period of time in which there was only the one pair of glasses in existence, the ones we are calling the London pair. So they must have been the ones McCoy bought. He couldn't have bought the San Francisco pair, as they didn't exist until after Kirk sold them to the antiques dealer!
Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey!
But that would mean that when Kirk and the others travel back to the future, they were travelling into the future of the alternate timeline they created, the one in which two pairs of the spectacles existed. That would mean tht everyone on Earth in the original timeline died.
But the introduction of a second pair of spectacles isn't in itself a significant event. With a few notable exceptions, Star Trek doesn't have alternative timelines. The past itself can be changed.
When the Borg travelled back to assimilate Earth in First Contact, Picard didn't shrug his shoulders and say "Never mind, that's just a different reality, let's find a way back to ours." When McCoy prevented Edith's death in COTEOF, he changed history so that the Nazi's won. Not created an alternate timeline where it happened, but changed the past itself.
So in TVH, Kirk and his crew made a few changes to Earth's history. But those didn't create a whole new time line, they were just alterations to the past.
When the Borg travelled back to assimilate Earth in First Contact, Picard didn't shrug his shoulders and say "Never mind, that's just a different reality, let's find a way back to ours." When McCoy prevented Edith's death in COTEOF, he changed history so that the Nazi's won. Not created an alternate timeline where it happened, but changed the past itself.
So in TVH, Kirk and his crew made a few changes to Earth's history. But those didn't create a whole new time line, they were just alterations to the past.
But Trek has also shown us a "one time line" theory where going into the past was part of established history. (See: Time's Arrow.) Everything that happens IV could be predestination, it had always happened this way.
^Could be. Trek has always been inconsistent with time travel.
Or, to put it another way, time travel by it's very nature is a complex matter whereby interference in past events can lead to all sorts of different results: alternate time lines, pre-destination paradoxes, changes to established history, etc. And Star Trek has been very accurate in documenting those disparate consequences.
Or, to put it another way, time travel by it's very nature is a complex matter whereby interference in past events can lead to all sorts of different results: alternate time lines, pre-destination paradoxes, changes to established history, etc. And Star Trek has been very accurate in documenting those disparate consequences.
So let me ask you this...
Could Admiral Cartwright, at the beginning of Trek 4, go and find the spectacles that Kirk had sold to the pawn shop guy back in 1986? (Assume that the glasses hadn't been destroyed)
That's a very interesting question, and one to which the best answer is 'maybe'.
If Cartwright, or any one else, were to find the glasses 'before' Kirk and crew took their journey back in time, then the whole thing would have been a predestination paradox, as Trekker4747 noted above. The TNG episode 'Time's Arrow' is an example of that, as is the movie 'The Terminator'.
If, on the other hand, the second pair of glasses only existed 'after' Kirk's voyage, then we are dealing with a small change to the time stream.
Though as Cartwright himself didn't time travel, he himself could have memories of seeing them long before the whalesong event. But those memories would only have come into existence afterwards.
Yep, there's a reason time travel gives people headaches.
If Cartwright, or any one else, were to find the glasses 'before' Kirk and crew took their journey back in time, then the whole thing would have been a predestination paradox, as Trekker4747 noted above. The TNG episode 'Time's Arrow' is an example of that, as is the movie 'The Terminator'.
If, on the other hand, the second pair of glasses only existed 'after' Kirk's voyage, then we are dealing with a small change to the time stream.
Though as Cartwright himself didn't time travel, he himself could have memories of seeing them long before the whalesong event. But those memories would only have come into existence afterwards.
Yep, there's a reason time travel gives people headaches.
And in NuTrek there could be a 3rd pair of glasses floating around somewhere.
Save for a few isolated instances at rare points in my life, "The Voyage Home" never really appealed to me. I never liked Trek when they went back in time to the 20th century, that's not why I tuned in to watch in the first place.
^
I agree, to an extent. I like the characters and seeing them outside of their usual environment is interesting, though I think, especially since it's a comedy, it makes them act pretty idiotic or, at best, silly.
However, I do agree, I enjoy the science fiction aspects and seeing them in a contemporary setting just isn't the same for me.
I agree, to an extent. I like the characters and seeing them outside of their usual environment is interesting, though I think, especially since it's a comedy, it makes them act pretty idiotic or, at best, silly.
However, I do agree, I enjoy the science fiction aspects and seeing them in a contemporary setting just isn't the same for me.
Thank God somebody actually agrees with me on this site. I was beginning to think everyone followed the same trends in fandom. ie STIV=Good.
"City on the Edge of Forever"
Star Trek as an (intentional) comedy movie doesnt work for me. I respect Leonard Nimoy and he is my most favourite actor ever, but it doesn't mean I have to like everything what was born inside his head.
Here we have a probe (and it's a goddamn absolutely invincible probe!!), it makes the oceans boil!! and it wants whales. Lets go back in time, 80's L.A. will be okay, it's just behind the studio, without any knowledge about life in that time, and find the whales, and enjoy some awkward situations. It will be hilarioooouuuusss.
Bleh.
Here we have a probe (and it's a goddamn absolutely invincible probe!!), it makes the oceans boil!! and it wants whales. Lets go back in time, 80's L.A. will be okay, it's just behind the studio, without any knowledge about life in that time, and find the whales, and enjoy some awkward situations. It will be hilarioooouuuusss.
Bleh.
