STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[KittyDuran]

I found the "war-crazed admiral" storyline by itself silly and cliche.

Yes, but well done, imo.

At least Marcus wasn't going around saying Klingons were trying to pollute our precious bodily fluids.

I didn't have a problem with Marcus, either, even though he was over the top, son. In reality, Marcus struck me as grossly exaggerated and totally amoral versions of Curtis LeMay and Douglas MacArthur who somehow avoided any checks on his power or ambitions.

After all:
-- LeMay told anyone who would listen (even in public) that nuclear war with the Soviet Union was inevitable and major U.S. cities would be wiped out. In 1961 he told JFK he had a plan for a surprise attack on the USSR to beat them while the U.S. still held the nuclear advantage. Kennedy didn't even listen to the plan.
-- In October 1962, when Kennedy said no to LeMay's plan to bomb the missile sites in Cuba and went with a blockade instead, Ted Sorenson said LeMay likened that to Chamberlain at Munich and said the American people would never go for it.
--Think of how badly MacArthur wanted to escalate the Korean War to use it as an excuse to invade China.

So, is it that much of a stretch to create a grossly audacious character with an itch for war with the Klingons that has to be scratched?

IIRC there is an interview with Peter Weller where he mentions LeMay in respect to his character.

 

[AnnLouise]

Since it WAS filmed, partially, at the brewery

sigh. As a resident of a state with MANY fine breweries, I see NO reason why films of any genre shouldn't use them as settings. Along with our many, many taverns....

I was simply stating facts, not commenting on them. I like the new look of engineering.

I agree! Since I live in a state with the unofficial state song "In Heaven There Is No Beer",I also think any movie is better with beer -or set in a brewery!
Image the magnificence of F&F 6 - set in the MillerCoors plant, or Iron Man at the old Blatz factory!

 

[Kruezerman]

Let's see:

The Enterprise can now maneuver in an atmosphere with ease. It's as handy as a helicopter.

She was built in the atmosphere. I kinda hope she can maneuver there.

Kirk is portrayed as an incompetent who is ultimately responsible for all the deaths in San Francisco.

Just like TWOK right?

The "Transwarp transporter" is back which means starships are definitely obsolete, in case that wasn't clear from the last movie.

Cause you can totally invade a planet by beaming five people at a time.

Khan has somehow become and English white guy.

And Kirk has blue eyes and McCoy is Australian. New actors.

Death itself has been conquered with Khan's magic blood.

He was only mostly dead.

There's lots more but these are the highlights for me. What a piece of crap.

Full review is HERE.

Nah, we're good.

 

[Mach5]

Full review is HERE.

Nah, we're good.

+1

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There's lots more but these are the highlights for me. What a piece of crap.

Full review is HERE.

Nah, we're good.

Yep.

 

[Therin of Andor]

McCoy is Australian.

Karl Urban is from New Zealand.

 

[Set Harth]

(he genocidally rammed his ship instead)

Nero was the one going around destroying planets. That's the genocide you're looking for. You seem intent on widening the definition of genocide to include the one who stops the genocide from continuing, but that's blatant nonsense.

Other delights include the continued objectification of women

Not a fan of TOS, I take it. Or is that what we call the "just because TOS did it doesn't make it okay" fallacy?

Alternate universe. Explained in the first film

Supposedly, it will be explained in the comics. It isn't explained by the alternate universe because Khan is originally from long before 2233.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Loved the film until the Kahn reveal.
It spoiled it for me, he was blatantly no-where NEAR Mexican enough.

I found the "war-crazed admiral" storyline by itself silly and cliche.

Heh I just realised this film now fits in with the "all admirals are evil" trope.

I think in the entirety of Trek there's only Admiral Ross from DS9 and Pike from the first film that don't completely go xenophobic or downright evil the second they get promoted from Captain.

Oh, and Kirk, but the jury's still out on that one

 

[indranee]

But I was not "flat out wrong".

Ok, let me check that rather than work from memory :

STID engineering was not filmed at the "brewery". It was filmed at NIF.

Since it WAS filmed, partially, at the brewery (engineering is more than just the warp core), then you were wrong. Unless you consider the rest of the machinery not engineering, in which case we're just clashing over definitions.

You're not getting it. Engineering WAS filmed at NIF.

Whether or not there were one or two scenes that showed the brewery as well is an insignificant factoid.

The enduring LOOK of engineering in THIS movie is derived from the shoot at NIF.

That's it. I'm gonna let it go at that. I've had long experience at semantics on this board and I can see this discussion going that route. So I'll let you have the last word on this (if you want).

 

[donners22]

Other delights include the continued objectification of women

Not a fan of TOS, I take it. Or is that what we call the "just because TOS did it doesn't make it okay" fallacy

Hardly a fallacy. TOS was a product of its era, which was nearly 50 years ago. Society has changed drastically since then, and things which were acceptable then are far less so now.

Whether this film goes too far is a matter of personal opinion, but I read several mainstream reviews which criticised this aspect.

 

[Belz...]

You're not getting it. Engineering WAS filmed at NIF.

Whether or not there were one or two scenes that showed the brewery as well is an insignificant factoid.

The enduring LOOK of engineering in THIS movie is derived from the shoot at NIF.

That's it. I'm gonna let it go at that. I've had long experience at semantics on this board and I can see this discussion going that route. So I'll let you have the last word on this (if you want).

I'm not looking to have the last word, here. I'm trying to surmise if you are taking "engineering" to mean "just the place with the warp core". If so, then you are of course correct. I always understood "engineering" to be broader than just one room (see TNG for what I mean by one room.)

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Let's see:

The Enterprise can now maneuver in an atmosphere with ease. It's as handy as a helicopter.

Kirk is portrayed as an incompetent who is ultimately responsible for all the deaths in San Francisco.

The "Transwarp transporter" is back which means starships are definitely obsolete, in case that wasn't clear from the last movie.

Khan has somehow become and English white guy.

Death itself has been conquered with Khan's magic blood.

There's lots more but these are the highlights for me. What a piece of crap.

Full review is HERE.

Ever though of sticking to the previous TV shows, movies and fans shows and NOT watch the new ones?

 

[Set Harth]

TOS was a product of its era, which was nearly 50 years ago. Society has changed drastically since then, and things which were acceptable then are far less so now.

Who cares?

I'll take a STID which is consistent with TOS on this issue over a STID which conforms to modern political correctness in a bid for "acceptance".

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There's really no virtue to being consistent with something that espouses outdated and unfair values. None at all.

 

[spsblue]

Just about recovered from an hour or so panic attack induced by watching STiD, and the shear wrongness of the casting.....

Still too angry and stressed to post coherently at this point.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Still too angry and stressed to post coherently at this point.

This is self-evident.

 

[Kruezerman]

McCoy is Australian.

Karl Urban is from New Zealand.

Oops.
Keith Urban's Australian right?

Just about recovered from an hour or so panic attack induced by watching STiD, and the shear wrongness of the casting.....

Still too angry and stressed to post coherently at this point.

Then why post at all?

 

[Set Harth]

The needs of the many.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Karl Urban is from New Zealand.

Oops.
Keith Urban's Australian right?

Yeppers.

Keith= Aussie
Karl= Kiwi

 

[Amaris]

Thanks for respectfully disagreeing.

Hey, thanks for not considering me a mindless automaton for simply enjoying the movie. I've been seeing that on movie sites when I mention that I like STiD. It gets depressing.

BC didn't do a terrible job with what he had, in my opinion. There was a cool, cold, and yes, somewhat enigmatic quality, that I think he conveyed well.

But Khan, to me, is much more than just that. BC's Khan wasn't hugely menacing, in my view, and I found that Montalban could be empathetic, even when he was turned into more of a B-movie heavy in TWOK.

Oh, you mean world class ham. In that case, Montalban has Cumberbatch beat. No one hammed it up like he did when playing Khan in TWOK, and I do mean that as a compliment.

Cumberbatch definitely played Khan as a cold calculator, one who really has no care whether you live or die, as long as you suit his purposes. Montalban's Khan was much more over the top in terms of villainy.

Two totally different styles from two totally different actors. Each has their strengths and weaknesses, I feel.

I'll have to check "Sherlock" out. I've been meaning to see what all the fuss is about for a while. But in that sense, I had no preconceptions about BC's performance. I took it for what it was; and it didn't really do a lot for me.

If you can, please do. I've seen dozens of Sherlock Holmes iterations, and this one is my favorite of them all. Benedict Cumberbatch's Holmes is a rather eccentric, genius, self described "consulting detective," and is ably played to the hilt. It also helps that Martin Freeman is a very versatile actor and does a splendid job playing the role of Dr. John Watson.