STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[RAMA]

Did we even see the same movies ?

Yeah, it's called an opinion. I wish there were more TMP-like sci-fi movies, but I understand that it's unappealing to most people, so I don't make an issue of it.

The Motion Picture has a story with big ideas and special effects to match. But I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Though I wished we would get more big idea movies but I know that's unrealistic based on the current market.

Unlike STV, STTMP could easily have been saved in the writing process. Think STNG's Tin Man, which had a constant threat and still had a personal story (Spock vs Tam).

 

[mos6507]

By "better storytellers," you mean Nick Meyer--the guy who "re-imagined" Melville, Dickens, and Shakespeare.

It's not an original concept that is most important. It's the skill in execution.

JJ's reliance on secrecy as the be-all-end-all is kind of like another bad filmmaker (M. Night Shyamalan). It's not the destination that matters, but the journey. Otherwise something like Wrath of Khan would be enjoyable only once, so you can be shocked when they kill off Spock.

To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.

 

[BillJ]

To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.

I find both entertaining.

 

[cbspock]

To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.

I find both entertaining.

Me too
Trek 2-6 were filmed like TV episodes. JJ Trek and TMP were actually done on movie budgets. If TOS had a budget, I could totally see them doing a scene like we saw in Into Darkness. Even on DS9 they had a runabout chase through an asteroid belt, or runabouts being chased even Defiant hunting down Jemhadar fighters, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to TOS, Doomsday Machine had some great "one liners" back in the day.


-Chris

 

[Therin of Andor]

ST09 and STID blows TMP out of the water. There are so many better TOS TV shows than the TMP even. Every single Star Trek TV series has better single TV episodes than TMP.

Precisely what I was told almost weekly throughout 1980. But I had only been exposed to random eps of TAS and a few eps of TOS in the 70s, a fascinating series of "from the set of TMP" newspaper articles in the week leading up to the premiere of TMP, and reading the novelization. I was totally captivated by TMP and no film ever since has so overwhelmed me.

TMP is a TV episode of the TOS nothing more, nothing special as it should have been, as it could have been.

I probably helps never to have seen "The Changeling" before seeing TMP. But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas". Goldsmith's music was beautiful! The trip around the Enterprise in drydock was amazing for me, as a newbie; I can only imagine some ten-year veteran fans being delirious by such generosity of screentime.

But yeah, coming out of the cinema from my first viewing of TMP (alone), ST 2009 (with a friend who'd also found Trek via TMP) and to a slightly lesser extent STiD (several TrekBBS members), I had that similar feeling of deep, personal satisfaction that I never got from ST II or ST IV, as popular as those films remain.

 

[Pauln6]

TMP is a TV episode of the TOS nothing more, nothing special as it should have been, as it could have been.

I probably helps never to have seen "The Changeling" before seeing TMP. But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas". Goldsmith's music was beautiful! The trip around the Enterprise in drydock was amazing for me, as a newbie; I can only imagine some ten-year veteran fans being delirious by such generosity of screentime.

But yeah, coming out of the cinema from my first viewing of TMP (alone), ST 2009 (with a friend who'd also found Trek via TMP) and to a slightly lesser extent STiD (several TrekBBS members), I had that similar feeling of deep, personal satisfaction that I never got from ST II or ST IV, as popular as those films remain.

I think 'captivating' is a great way to describe TMP. I saw it when I was quite young and it was so different from the series that it caught me off-guard in a good way. It looked amazing and I like the way the characters appeared competent, crisp, and professional overall. I thought all it needed was some more character moments between the supporting cast outside of delivering lines and repeating orders, and some exciting scenes off the ship.

However, TWoK holds together as the best of the bunch for me because it works on so many levels. It has its share of dumb moments and I wish a bit more of the background from the novel had made it onto the screen but it is just a great movie.

I think NuTrek is far more childish in its approach than most of its predecessors but the rot started with STIV. STIV is a comedy and works really well but V and VI tried to follow in its footsteps by turning the main cast into caricatures. This works less well in more serious stories.

NuTrek has got the balance right with most of the cast though. They work to give them all a moment in the spotlight and the developing relationships are really fun to watch. A bit more of that in TMP and the movie would have scored even more highly for me.

 

[Caligula]

2) The new-ish look for the Klingons. The helmets look like something that belongs on a Predator, and once said helmets are removed, every Klingon depicted looks indistinguishable from the next.

I've only seen it three times, but I only thought one Klingon took off his helmet?

Yes, we only see one Klingon. The rest remain helmeted. So I'm a little unsure about the idea that they all look the same

I have not had the opportunity to see it multiple times yet, or surely I would have caught on to this as well. So much shit was happening in this movie, action-wise, that I was bound to misremember something.

 

[Amasov]

I made this for someone just as a joke.

 

[indranee]

^

Can I steal that, Amasov?

 

[trevanian]

The ST:TMP novelization was pretty terrible. Did we ever find out who actually ghostwrote it? Too early for the Reeves-Stevenses.

Marshak and Culbreath?

That's REALLY funny. Did you ever read how back in 78 Shatner wished they'd use THE PRICE OF THE PHOENIX as the basis for the first film?

No,I don't think anybody overuses italics quite like they're trotted out in TMP novelization. If you just changed it all to caps, it would seem like the way they include Roddenberry's comments in THE MAKING OF STAR TREK book.

Since GR really didn't have much to do besides give occasional notes on the rough cuts for the better part of a year, and on account of how awful most of it reads, I have never doubted he wrote it. It certainly reflects some of his interests, and very specifically it reflects all the Von Puttkamer tech advisor influence on the space travel aspect, which is also present in the GR draft of IN THY IMAGE (maybe the ONLY thing in his draft that is really an improvement.)

But it would have been nice to have a published novel version of THE GOD THING written by him as a basis for comparison.

 

[Amasov]

^

Can I steal that, Amasov?

Absolutely.

 

[Agent Richard07]

RDM on Trek on TV vs. Film
http://geektyrant.com/news/2013/4/5/ron-moore-on-why-star-trek-is-better-suited-for-tv.html

The comics provide me with my episodic fix. And funny that he should mention the "lower decks" episode. My favorite issue to date is the one where they retold "The Apple" from the perspective of a red shirt.

 

[davejames]

Finally saw the movie a second time (this time in 3D), and I have to admit... I thought it was a helluva lot better this time.

I'm still not crazy about the kind of story being told of course (all the fantastic worlds and adventures out there, and we're stuck watching the crew go on some Rambo-style revenge mission to capture a terrorist? Really??), but it is what it is, and the movie still manages to tell that story in a pretty exciting way. And the overall plot even seemed to hold together a lot better than I remembered too.


(Although I am still annoyed at the fact the Enterprise never even fires so much as a phaser during the entire movie. I mean, I get that the ship was supposed to be completely outmatched during the battle, but it'd be nice to see it put up SOME kind of fight early on!)

 

[Pauln6]

RDM on Trek on TV vs. Film
http://geektyrant.com/news/2013/4/5/ron-moore-on-why-star-trek-is-better-suited-for-tv.html

The comics provide me with my episodic fix. And funny that he should mention the "lower decks" episode. My favorite issue to date is the one where they retold "The Apple" from the perspective of a red shirt.

I prefer longer stories but I agree - that was a really well-written issue.

 

[Blue_Trek]

But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas".

I agree, as the Star Wars Christmas special is to A New Hope,
TMP is to STID.

 

[Belz...]

Blasphemy !

 

[trevanian]

But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas".

I agree, as the Star Wars Christmas special is to A New Hope,
TMP is to STID.

I don't know which is more ridiculously absurd, that line or the fact that VERY BRADY XMAS' bad guy is Capt Esteban in SFS.

 

[BillJ]

I see a film that deals with the themes of loyalty, responsibility, friendship and open-mindedness. If that's not Star Trek, I don't know what is...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What's remarkable is that no one gives a fuck now about either A Very Brady Christmas or The Search For Spock.

 

[BillJ]

What's remarkable is that no one gives a fuck now about either A Very Brady Christmas or The Search For Spock.

Is that really remarkable?