STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[ConRefit79]

I'm sure Cumby will make a fine Khan. I really don't care what ethnicity the actor is. That's why they call it acting.

Only thing about Khan's blood being used as a cure-all is, why didn't Khan Prime ever think of it? But that's minor, in the grand scheme of things. Just chalk it up to something that Section 31 discovered and leave it at that. Would make it interesting to suggest that Khan's enhanced intellect really isn't perfect after all...

I wondered about that, myself. Could be in this universe, Section 31 has been playing around with his genetics to study him and they've experimented on him, creating the "magic" blood. Khan, humbled to be the guinea pig as he's actually seething and plotting his vengeance. That will be my canon, at least.

The blood reminds me of the magic Cylon/human blood which saved Roslin in nuBSG. At least for awhile.

 

[Franklin]

One other thing. Blood has to be matched for type (except for Type O). While it would be logical if Khan's magic blood "fit" everyone like Type O does, maybe it doesn't. It could be a happy coincidence that Khan and certain others have the same blood type. Maybe Marla (in the Prime Universe) didn't share Khan's blood type.

 

[Flake]

Like I said, maybe he gave Marla McGivers all his blood and it made no difference because it could not reverse the effects of the Ceti eel.

 

[ConRefit79]

One other thing. Blood has to be matched for type (except for Type O). While it would be logical if Khan's magic blood "fit" everyone like Type O does, maybe it doesn't. It could be a happy coincidence that Khan and certain others have the same blood type. Maybe Marla (in the Prime Universe) didn't share Khan's blood type.

What if it changes those who receive it? Be interesting if it had nanites which began augmenting the recipient. That or specialized viruses.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Oh God no. I hope Kirk doesn't start acting all Augmenty in the next film.

 

[ConRefit79]

^ Oh God no. I hope Kirk doesn't start acting all Augmenty in the next film.

An undisciplined Kirk, who has augment abilities. Instead of the Search for Spock, the Search or Hunt for Kirk. They revive him, only to have to kill him because he's a threat.

 

[SalvorHardin]

^ Oh God no. I hope Kirk doesn't start acting all Augmenty in the next film.

He'll just get a deep menacing voice and a British accent. Nothing more.

 

[indranee]

^ Oh God no. I hope Kirk doesn't start acting all Augmenty in the next film.

He'll just get a deep menacing voice and a British accent. Nothing more.

Good thing he already is a "paleskin".

 

[Xaios]

I didn't know that. I got to join some Batman boards.

Of course, over $500 million later, who was howling in disgust, I wonder?

Fans are sometimes the biggest detriment to a franchise.

(By the way, I loved how Ledger played the Joker.)

It wasn't just Batman fans, it was a lot of the general moviegoing audience. People's biggest problem with Ledger was, Brokeback Mountain aside, he came across as more of a prettyboy than a real actor, because he'd never had a chance to show his range. Then playing a gay cowboy didn't help his "villain cred."

(I also loved him as the Joker.)

 

[Flake]

I just remember people saying that there was no way Heath Ledger could equal or surpass Jack Nicholsons performance..

 

[trevanian]

Please tell me however that you didn't like On Her Majesty's Secret Service where George Lazenby plays Bond and actually gets married in the film?

Worst Bond film in the history of the series and Lazenby was terrible as James Bond.

Trek like Bond had it's Lazenby moments. Nemesis and Final Frontier were IMO definately those moments.

Actually, that is my favourite Bond film, storywise and only the fact that Lazenby, rather than Connery, is Bond in that film prevents it from being my favourite Bond film period.

I think OHMSS with Lazenby is better than it might have been with Connery. Connery's Bond oozes misogyny—as does Connery in real life—and never manifests any sense of vulnerability. I doubt he could have sold the love story.

See ROBIN&MARIAN and THE WIND & THE LION or, if you want to count bromance, THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KIND to see that Connery could absolutely sell a love story. Just pay him enough money and get him a good script (emphasis on the former.)

 

[Franklin]

^ Oh God no. I hope Kirk doesn't start acting all Augmenty in the next film.

He'll just get a deep menacing voice and a British accent. Nothing more.

And when he visits home in the US, he'll have an uncontrollable urge to drive on the left side of the road.

 

[trevanian]

Bennett, Sowards and Meyer had planned for Khan to be psychic. They wrote a scene in which Khan and Kirk fight, with Khan using his psychic ability to make Kirk appear to have to fight in a variety of different environments.

SOWARDS came up with that, Bennett was okay with it -- and Meyer dispensed with it. In Starlog, Sowards described Meyer's rewrite as turning Khan from a mystic to Khan The Barbarian.

I've seen a few drafts after Meyer came on and the Kirk and Khan fighting with whips and Kirk getting killed in his mind and such isn't in any of them. I don't think it ever got near being shot ... on a cheap-o show like TWOK was, a few days at the beach would have been a big hit on the budget, especially with all the practical fx and then opticals later.

And in a point I strongly agree with, Sowards mentions that he had Spock die by just being in the room with blue light pouring on him, not any of what David Gerrold derisively described as Spock mixing the matter and antimatter with his gloved hands.

 

[Captrek]

Bennett, Sowards and Meyer had planned for Khan to be psychic. They wrote a scene in which Khan and Kirk fight, with Khan using his psychic ability to make Kirk appear to have to fight in a variety of different environments.

SOWARDS came up with that, Bennett was okay with it -- and Meyer dispensed with it. In Starlog, Sowards described Meyer's rewrite as turning Khan from a mystic to Khan The Barbarian.

I've seen a few drafts after Meyer came on and the Kirk and Khan fighting with whips and Kirk getting killed in his mind and such isn't in any of them. I don't think it ever got near being shot ... on a cheap-o show like TWOK was, a few days at the beach would have been a big hit on the budget, especially with all the practical fx and then opticals later.

Yes, I had heard that it was cut largely for budget reasons, but with a Shatner/Montalban scheduling conflict also being a contributing factor. It may be that Meyer objected to the scene on artistic grounds and wouldn't have shot the scene even if he could; that’s not what I remember hearing but I don't know. It may be that different people involved came away with different impressions about the “real” reason the scene was scrapped.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Initially I enjoyed ST09. It was a fun movie. But in subsequent viewings, it felt like an average summer popcorn flick. It felt empty.

When I became a ST fan in 1980, after seeing ST: TMP, diehard TOS fans told me that, if I were a true fan, I'd realise one day that TMP was not a good movie, nor good "Star Trek" - and yet, it remains my favourite film of all time, now tied with ST (2009).

And "Into Darkness" is pretty close as a totally immersive cinema experience.

As for a film that people later say "feels empty", I've heard the same criticism about ST IV, whereby fans complain that it has "dated badly". Others complain it was beginning of "the dumbing down of the franchise".

You can't please every taste. Nor expect every fan to continue their devotion to ST in the same way every year of their lives. If you initially enjoyed ST (2009), that's great! That you've now changed you mind doesn't make the film any worse, nor change those first immersive feelings. Your tastes have simply changed.

And what's so awful about summer popcorn flicks?

 

[Captrek]

A vocal group of angry Trekkers denouncing the latest Star Trek film as the death of traditional Star Trek is proof positive that Star Trek tradition is alive and well.

 

[Xaios]

I've heard the same criticism about ST IV, whereby fans complain that it has "dated badly".

In fairness, I still laugh every time I hear that awful 80s music when the crew first head out into San Fran. I half expect to see them wearing neon parachute pants and walking around with ghettoblasters.

I still love that movie, though.

 

[Therin of Andor]

One thing I'll add in this thread. I think much of my enjoyment of my first viewing of STiD was that weird, niggly feeling of... anticipation. The waiting and wondering when and how and why a certain Big Reveal would/might be made - and you guys who've deliberately spoilerized yourselves can never have that feeling, so your experience of viewing the movie is probably going to be more like my second viewing.

Which can't come soon enough for me!

 

[Therin of Andor]

A vocal group of angry Trekkers denouncing the latest Star Trek film as the death of traditional Star Trek is proof positive that Star Trek tradition is alive and well.

Agree. It was also said about TOS Season Three, TAS, "Phase II", TMP, ST II, ST III, ST IV and especially ST V.

 

[RAMA]

Reaction from the UK critics:

19. Classy M - April 25, 2013 The film was shown to press and cinema reps in the UK today and seems to have been well received. Tweets from those lucky enough to see it said,

“Just saw Star Trek Into Darkness. Not perfect, but huge amounts for both Trekkies and non Trekkies to enjoy. And Benedict C is superb.”

“At first Star Trek Into Darkness preview. It rocks. Benedict Cumberbatch fab villain. Great job by JJ Abrams. Gives me hope for Star Wars.”

“Star Trek Into Darkness! Marvellous. That is all.”

In addition, Total Film gave the film 4 stars.

That buzz seems positive so far. Long may it last.

More:

43. Lurker - April 25, 2013 Gizmodo Australia reviewer calls Into Darkness best looking sci-fi of our time. You know that line will be on the promos.

"What a film!"

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/04/star-trek-into-darkness-the-gizmodo-australia-review/

Full review: Total FIlm:

http://www.totalfilm.com/reviews/cinema/star-trek-into-darkness