STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Admiral Buzzkill]

IMO the Khan in TOS was a lot less dangerous than the Khan in nuTrek. In TOS in the byplay where the crew were teasing Spock about the great qualities of Khan, it was shown that he liked to control the 'sheep' not destroy them. In Space Seed it didn't sound like Khan was really out to destroy anything just gain power over the Earth from his 'brothers'.

Except when Kirk defeats his attempt to take over Enterprise - at that point, Khan heads to Engineering and wires the ship to explode.

Just as, in TWOK, in his last moments he activates the Genesis Device to destroy Kirk.

Just as in STID, when defeated, he targets Starfleet with his disintegrating ship to cause as much damage as he can.

"I'll say one thing for him, he's consistent."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

That doesn't, in and of itself, exclude him from being considered a terrorist.

Well no, but my point is that in actuality he didn't specifically target civilians.

Yeah, but, let's not lose sight of the fact that, when the Enterprise was dispatched to go after Harrison, Kirk and crew did not know that.

However, and moreover, Khan [as Harrison] was purported to have been responsible for an attack on a branch of Federation Archives, supposedly not a military target. Khan was thereby accused of being a terrorist. The "drone strike" was ordered to punish that alleged crime, which was in fact a false charge, because the building attacked wasn't really an archive.

My point there was that, for a significant part of the movie, our heroes were regarding Harrison as a terrorist, and, to the best of their knowledge, it was correct for them to regard him that way. Contrary to the impression one might have from reading your assertion that Khan wasn't really a terrorist, the film's narrative hardly fails to associate Khan with terrorism.

 

[T'Bonz]

I think they should have just had him be John Harrison. Other than a wink and nod to old school fans, having him be Khan was unnecessary. Had someone else been in charge other than Khan, it would have made for a more interesting twist, imo.

 

[Belz...]

Well no, but my point is that in actuality he didn't specifically target civilians.

Yeah, but, let's not lose sight of the fact that, when the Enterprise was dispatched to go after Harrison, Kirk and crew did not know that.

Obviously. I thought we were just talking about whether he was an actual terrorist.

 

[Phily B]

You know, I've been inspired to go back and watch some of the older

Some of the nitpicks you could make with Wrath of Khan are bigger than the ones you could do with STID. It's like people just ignore them though.

 

[BillJ]

Some of the nitpicks you could make with Wrath of Khan are bigger than the ones you could do with STID. It's like people just ignore them though.

It's the power of those rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.

 

[Ovation]

Magic torpedo good.
Magic blood bad.

Pointless and contextually empty scream good.
Not strictly necessary but contextually consistent scream bad.

White man bad guy good.
White man bad guy bad.

I could go on…


(I love TWOK, incidentally)

 

[Booji]

C+

The good... Kirk & Spock are once again excellently done. The rest of the Enterprise crew, when they got any screen time, was fun to watch. Most of the design and fx are good. Nice addition of Section 31 and liked the "Khaaaaaaaan!!!" scream. Seems the 5 year mission is now, hopefully, where things go.

The bad... I guessed pretty much the entire story, who the villain would be, and the exact ending months ago. There were no surprises at all and that made just about every important moment a big yawn.

Cumberbatch is a fricken wooden log on screen. No charisma at all. Ricardo's Khan is way better, even though his is more poorly written. Khan2 actually seemed like a genetically enhanced villain, where Khan1 was a mustache twister. But Ricardo had so much damn charisma he came across as a total badass. Also, it's simply stupid having a whiter than white English dude play a middle eastern guy.

There was no point to having the blonde twit in the movie at all. Her screen time should have been given to others who sorely needed it, namely Chekov, Scotty & Bones... who served no purpose other than delivering one liners.

The entire intro sequence is one big plot hole and a better method could have been written, or just a simple rewrite, to get Kirk demoted.

Klingon helmets..... ugh. The entire Kronos sequence was a let down.

Worthless Nimoy cameo.


It's a decent popcorn flick, but like the first movie the villain is lame and overall story lacking.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I thought we were just talking about whether he was an actual terrorist.

Well, it was in the context of discussing whether showing cultural sensitivity was appropriate. In that context, pointing out that it has no zing to say he's not really a terrorist isn't off the subject. I'm sorta surprised, if you missed that.

 

[Belz...]

I didn't. I just got lost in the conversation.

 

[LS650]

I've seen it in both 2D and again in 3D IMax.

I give it a B+. Pretty entertaining flick and better than most of the trek movies, but with some flaws and with room for improvement.

I still think TWOK sits at the top of the heap.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the film's narrative hardly fails to associate Khan with terrorism.

Considering what he did to a fourth of Earth during the Eugenics Wars, I'd consider Khan very MUCH a terrorist.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Cumberbatch is a fricken wooden log on screen. No charisma at all.

Well, that's certainly different from what most people have said.

Also, it's simply stupid having a whiter than white English dude play a middle eastern guy.

Khan's never been identified as Middle Eastern. McGivers guessed he was Sikh (and the name Singh is consistent with that), and depicted him as such; which is a religion, not a race, though it's primarily made up of people from South Asia. He most likely conquered the Middle East along with South, Southeast, East, and Central Asia during the time he ruled 1/4th of the Earth.

Plus, as has already been mentioned, Ricardo Montalban was a white man of European descent born in Mexico. They gave him some skin darkening makeup in TOS but none in TWoK.

Her screen time should have been given to others who sorely needed it, namely Chekov, Scotty & Bones... who served no purpose other than delivering one liners.

Chekov was appointed Chief Engineer and repaired the ship's sabotaged engines, Scotty made a morally courageous stand and then prevented the destruction of the Enterprise by sabotaging the enemy ship, and Bones discovered the Augment cryotubes and saved Kirk's life with a blood transfusion from Khan. Yeah, it would have been nice to see more of each, but they hardly served "no purpose."

The entire intro sequence is one big plot hole and a better method could have been written, or just a simple rewrite, to get Kirk demoted.

Explain how it is a "plot hole." I can get not liking it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a plot hole.

 

[indranee]

C+

The good... Kirk & Spock are once again excellently done. The rest of the Enterprise crew, when they got any screen time, was fun to watch. Most of the design and fx are good. Nice addition of Section 31 and liked the "Khaaaaaaaan!!!" scream. Seems the 5 year mission is now, hopefully, where things go.

The bad... I guessed pretty much the entire story, who the villain would be, and the exact ending months ago. There were no surprises at all and that made just about every important moment a big yawn.

Cumberbatch is a fricken wooden log on screen. No charisma at all. Ricardo's Khan is way better, even though his is more poorly written. Khan2 actually seemed like a genetically enhanced villain, where Khan1 was a mustache twister. But Ricardo had so much damn charisma he came across as a total badass. Also, it's simply stupid having a whiter than white English dude play a middle eastern guy.

There was no point to having the blonde twit in the movie at all. Her screen time should have been given to others who sorely needed it, namely Chekov, Scotty & Bones... who served no purpose other than delivering one liners.

The entire intro sequence is one big plot hole and a better method could have been written, or just a simple rewrite, to get Kirk demoted.

Klingon helmets..... ugh. The entire Kronos sequence was a let down.

Worthless Nimoy cameo.


It's a decent popcorn flick, but like the first movie the villain is lame and overall story lacking.

Those two bolded sections pretty much nullified your whole review to me.

For the umpteenth time, Khan was NOT middle eastern.

 

[Kegg]

Cumberbatch is a fricken wooden log on screen. No charisma at all.

Well, that's certainly different from what most people have said.

That's what most people I've talked to have felt. He's just scowly angry man, but granted, the script didn't give him a lot to work with.

Liked the movie (though slightly less than '09's), but like the last one the villain really was one of the weakest things about it.

 

[Gepard]

I feel the same way. He's just there, on screen, being all British and monotone. It's not enough to really hurt the movie, though, which may be why the folks who like the movie aren't complaining much about it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yeah. Performance quality and charisma are mutually exclusive.

I think Cumby gave a fantastic performance, but his Khan was no where near as charismatic as Monty's.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I'm still not understanding why Benedict Cumberbatch has done a disservice to all swarthy male actors of the world by accepting the part of John Harrison, nor why JJ Abrams has committed a crime by hiring who he felt had given the best audition.

Like I inferred by showing the links, you've got to ask those people at said links why this is.

 

[throwback]

For the flaws of this movie, it has one flaw that I am glad to see is not there. It's not boring. i watched the latest Die Hard film - man, that was boring. It literally put me to sleep.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm still not understanding why Benedict Cumberbatch has done a disservice to all swarthy male actors of the world by accepting the part of John Harrison, nor why JJ Abrams has committed a crime by hiring who he felt had given the best audition.

Like I inferred by showing the links, you've got to ask those people at said links why this is.

No. We really don't.