Maybe that'll be explained in the novelization?
STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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Maybe that'll be explained in the novelization?
Tentatively thinking this is A- material -- right on par with the first one. I'll be seeing it two more times, though. For now I want to keep things short and sweet like that, but I'll be posting a full-fledged review on another site after the second viewing tomorrow and I'll share it here as well.
Damn fine flick, let down by several nagging little issues. Great banter and a much stronger antagonist(s) though. Bit disappointed with certain pacing issues compared with the first one and a setup that feels like two steps back from the previous movie's epilogue.
Damn fine flick, let down by several nagging little issues. Great banter and a much stronger antagonist(s) though. Bit disappointed with certain pacing issues compared with the first one and a setup that feels like two steps back from the previous movie's epilogue.
I actually flinched when an arrow flew out at the audience.I was hoping to see chunks of bone and brain fly out of the screen at me.
The 3D glasses I got were bigger than usual. The rims are no longer in my field of vision.
Good point. But you know, in TWOK Spock said, "the ship... out of danger?" In this, Kirk says, "our ship." That just made me feel all warm and gooey inside.
Yay! Come and join us on this side of the couch. We have cold beer and party favors!
I can finally come in here!!
I went in expecting to dislike it. The one thing I DID know was about Harrison. Why rehash a perfectly good movie? Wasn't the idea of the reboot to have fresh new stories? What the hell was wrong with the writers? Why destroy Romulus and Vulcan to write the same old shit? Grr, right?
So I went dutifully as a long-term Trek fan. I didn't like Kirk last movie, in fact, I disliked him. Spock was too emo. Uhura too edgy for my liking.
I LOVED this movie. Does it have flaws? Of course. Is is very derivative of other movies/series? Yes. Did it matter? Surprisingly, it did not.
This time, I *cared* about the characters and I can see this Kirk being Kirk. Spock - well Spock has been changed due to his experiences in this timeline and it fits now. Uhura was softened. Harrison was a great villain, for a while you even liked him, just a bit, or at least sympathized.
I didn't see the twist coming near the end, but my husband did. So I'm dumb.I also was unspoiled about everything other than Harrison's identity. And who the hell know Nimoy would be in it, however briefly?
They hit it out of the park, this time. I can't wait for the next one. I hated to see it end.
My husband, however, was unimpressed. It was too similar to WOK for his liking. I thought I'd feel that way but I don't.
A+ from me.
P.S. The sequence of planets at the end was great. SO glad I went to see it in 3D. I normally would not have, but I was greedy and wanted to see it tonight.
That's exactly how I felt about it. I can see the flaws. I empathise with the (intelligent) reviews that list its failings. But I was so damned fond of them all by the end I didn't care.
Repetition becomes homage, mistakes become quirks, faults become eccentricities... it's like... Love.
Same here. I thought nuKirk was just interested in command at any cost. I just didn't like him in ST09. I like him better here. I even forgive Scotty for being a goofball.
I thought when they hopped in Mudd's shuttle that instead of looking like a smuggler, Spock looked very stiff much like a Starfleet Officer on duty. And then it hit me Quinto was playing Spock like Nimoy did when he was in civies in TOS. Usually very uncomfortable and unbelievable when trying deception.
I love this movie. I gave it an A+ but I'm amazed you can say TWOK was not well acted and limited. They are two very good movies. I prefer TWOK and always will but that does not take away from this movie.
I think the better comparison is between this movie and 'Space Seed' and how awesome TOS Kirk, Spock, Scotty, Uhura and especially McCoy were when dealing with Khan. There was no crying and giving in to enemy demands. And these are different times and its OK to cry now. I just remember how fantastic McCoy was when Khan held a knife to his neck. No wonder original Khan respected them
TWOK is a brilliant film, within limits. It's probably the only Trek film of the 1979-1992 period other than possibly ST 4 that's really remembered by non-trekkies. I think the script, the direction and the production design all maximize the very circumscribed resources with which it was made - and it's for that reason as much as any other that it comes closest of any of them to representing the essence of the original TV series.
You go right ahead and do that.
<- you knew that already though.Well said.
Alright, I just came home from the movie. I know these reviews are a dime a dozen from fans at this point but I just had to type this now. I gave the movie an A; thoroughly enjoyed it, even after knowing spoilers.
The film, in many ways, seems to be about two things: the growth of the crew and revenge versus principle. From the beginning, it seemed to me that the crew members of the Enterprise are still getting used to each other, and are definitely adjusting to Kirk's command style. But we see them each mature in a situation where they're quickly thrown into a maelstrom that, frankly, they aren't supposed to escape from.
Starfleet has also changed since the events of the last film. That's probably my favorite part of the movie: the fact that Starfleet, and the Federation by extension, is still dealing with the fallout of Vulcan's destruction. Yet, it takes additional attacks on Earth to really give Admiral Marcus what he wants: the provocation for war with the Klingons.
It's no surprise that Kirk is willing to go out and get Harrison, but Scotty, who I see as a stand in for the audience, asks a question we've been debating on this board for years: "I thought we were explorers?" That quest from soldiers back to explorers, I think, forms the heart of the film. (Now I've always been of the opinion that Starfleet is BOTH the military AND an exploration organization, but in this film it seems the fleet is close to going into a more militarized direction.)
Kirk dying for his ship shows just how far he's come: at that point, he realizes that he IS going to lose someone from his crew, namely himself. He saves an Enterprise that is almost a mirror of him and the crew: broken, near death, desperate for a miracle.
The film's theme of revenge shows up several times: Starfleet's tactics in the hunt for Harrison, and Spock's chase of Khan at the end, in which he nearly kills him (and that stunned me. I knew about the fight, but the brutality of it at the end still surprised me). But, again, revenge turns into something more positive, as Uhura gets Spock to stop his beating of Khan and use him to save the captain's life.
This was the movie we needed after the first one. The fallout of the events of the first movie are dealt with here, and the crew is getting closer to the experienced, well-oiled machine that we know so well. Here's to the Five Year Mission!
The film, in many ways, seems to be about two things: the growth of the crew and revenge versus principle. From the beginning, it seemed to me that the crew members of the Enterprise are still getting used to each other, and are definitely adjusting to Kirk's command style. But we see them each mature in a situation where they're quickly thrown into a maelstrom that, frankly, they aren't supposed to escape from.
Starfleet has also changed since the events of the last film. That's probably my favorite part of the movie: the fact that Starfleet, and the Federation by extension, is still dealing with the fallout of Vulcan's destruction. Yet, it takes additional attacks on Earth to really give Admiral Marcus what he wants: the provocation for war with the Klingons.
It's no surprise that Kirk is willing to go out and get Harrison, but Scotty, who I see as a stand in for the audience, asks a question we've been debating on this board for years: "I thought we were explorers?" That quest from soldiers back to explorers, I think, forms the heart of the film. (Now I've always been of the opinion that Starfleet is BOTH the military AND an exploration organization, but in this film it seems the fleet is close to going into a more militarized direction.)
Kirk dying for his ship shows just how far he's come: at that point, he realizes that he IS going to lose someone from his crew, namely himself. He saves an Enterprise that is almost a mirror of him and the crew: broken, near death, desperate for a miracle.
The film's theme of revenge shows up several times: Starfleet's tactics in the hunt for Harrison, and Spock's chase of Khan at the end, in which he nearly kills him (and that stunned me. I knew about the fight, but the brutality of it at the end still surprised me). But, again, revenge turns into something more positive, as Uhura gets Spock to stop his beating of Khan and use him to save the captain's life.
This was the movie we needed after the first one. The fallout of the events of the first movie are dealt with here, and the crew is getting closer to the experienced, well-oiled machine that we know so well. Here's to the Five Year Mission!
All I noticed was a wider impulse drive, but that was it.
I just saw the movie at the midnight screening. I hated the 2009 movie at first because of the destruction of Vulcan, weak, strange Romulans, contrived time travel plot, alternate timeline, etc. My expectations for Into Darkness were low.
It was an excellent film. I absolutely loved it.
The Good:
-Performances
I was worried that Chris Pine would not be able to deliver. I liked him as Kirk in the first film, but I've watched some of his other films since and he's underwhelmed. He did a fine job this film and portrayed moments of grief and determination very well. He has the womanizing charm thing down, so that aspect of Kirk is his bread and butter.
The scene where he had to show unbridled rage toward Khan were not amazing, but they weren't bad either. Overall Pine's performance was solid, and I believe with this film he's firmly won me over as Captain James T. Kirk.
Spock, Uhura and the rest of the crew had their moments though I felt too much of the humor comes at Spock's expense... but I remember plenty of TOS episodes where this was the case.
Special marks for Karl Urban as Bones. He completely disappears into that role and you kind of forget that he was a Rider of Rohan and a bad ass in his own right, and instead find him to be the lovable curmudgeon who gets space sickness.
Benedict Cumberbatch captivates in this performance. He really is the wheel that makes this movie turn. As other reviewers pointed out, you do see him both as a villain, and a man on a mission--a mission you find yourself sympathizing with.
Special effects:
Gorgeous beauty shots of the USS Enterprise. Rising from the water, falling into orbit, in the clouds, in space. The weird new Enterprise is kind of (only kind of) growing on me.
The sets looked massive and detailed. The matter-anti-matter chamber and warp core were beautiful set pieces and you got the sense that this was a real vessel with working parts. This film had the best sets and costumes I've ever seen in a Star Trek film. Nothing looked cheap. Nothing looked fake. Hell, this actually is Academy Award caliber work in set design and costumes.
-Little nods to past Trek.
The model of the NX-01 behind Marcus' desk. Section 31. The Harry Mudd incident. I noticed each time, and they didn't feel forced. They were appreciated and I felt a little rewarded for being a Trekkie. I didn't feel like it was "fan service". These are the things you can and should do when you have 40 years worth of lore at your disposal.
-Continuity with the 2009 film.
When Kirk mentioned his space jump I was like, "Hey, yeah! He actually has done this before!"
Scotty's little helper. Cupcake. Old Spock. Nice little touches to show that this crew has been together for a while now and has become a family.
The Bad:
A corrupt and murderous head of Starfleet? Admiral Marcus' betrayal was just a little over the top for me. It could have been done better. I feel like a few extra scenes fleshing out his motives could have made his character more nuanced. He could have realized that he had no choice but to destroy the Enterprise once his cover-up had failed, and, I dunno, been torn or conflicted about it. Instead he's literally like "Aw hell, now I gotta destroy our most famous ship for this cover-up. Bombs away!"
Also, Scotty just waltzing up to the secret Section 31 base in a shuttle? I don't mind him sneaking onto the Vengeance... but they could've devoted 2 more minutes to him doing it in a more stealthy way. A minor gripe.
The gripes are small. The plot holes, which were massive in the first film and really took me out of enjoying the experience and having Star Trek return, were pretty absent in this film. I enjoyed it. Hope you all do too!
It was an excellent film. I absolutely loved it.
The Good:
-Performances
I was worried that Chris Pine would not be able to deliver. I liked him as Kirk in the first film, but I've watched some of his other films since and he's underwhelmed. He did a fine job this film and portrayed moments of grief and determination very well. He has the womanizing charm thing down, so that aspect of Kirk is his bread and butter.
The scene where he had to show unbridled rage toward Khan were not amazing, but they weren't bad either. Overall Pine's performance was solid, and I believe with this film he's firmly won me over as Captain James T. Kirk.
Spock, Uhura and the rest of the crew had their moments though I felt too much of the humor comes at Spock's expense... but I remember plenty of TOS episodes where this was the case.
Special marks for Karl Urban as Bones. He completely disappears into that role and you kind of forget that he was a Rider of Rohan and a bad ass in his own right, and instead find him to be the lovable curmudgeon who gets space sickness.
Benedict Cumberbatch captivates in this performance. He really is the wheel that makes this movie turn. As other reviewers pointed out, you do see him both as a villain, and a man on a mission--a mission you find yourself sympathizing with.
Special effects:
Gorgeous beauty shots of the USS Enterprise. Rising from the water, falling into orbit, in the clouds, in space. The weird new Enterprise is kind of (only kind of) growing on me.
The sets looked massive and detailed. The matter-anti-matter chamber and warp core were beautiful set pieces and you got the sense that this was a real vessel with working parts. This film had the best sets and costumes I've ever seen in a Star Trek film. Nothing looked cheap. Nothing looked fake. Hell, this actually is Academy Award caliber work in set design and costumes.
-Little nods to past Trek.
The model of the NX-01 behind Marcus' desk. Section 31. The Harry Mudd incident. I noticed each time, and they didn't feel forced. They were appreciated and I felt a little rewarded for being a Trekkie. I didn't feel like it was "fan service". These are the things you can and should do when you have 40 years worth of lore at your disposal.
-Continuity with the 2009 film.
When Kirk mentioned his space jump I was like, "Hey, yeah! He actually has done this before!"
Scotty's little helper. Cupcake. Old Spock. Nice little touches to show that this crew has been together for a while now and has become a family.
The Bad:
A corrupt and murderous head of Starfleet? Admiral Marcus' betrayal was just a little over the top for me. It could have been done better. I feel like a few extra scenes fleshing out his motives could have made his character more nuanced. He could have realized that he had no choice but to destroy the Enterprise once his cover-up had failed, and, I dunno, been torn or conflicted about it. Instead he's literally like "Aw hell, now I gotta destroy our most famous ship for this cover-up. Bombs away!"
Also, Scotty just waltzing up to the secret Section 31 base in a shuttle? I don't mind him sneaking onto the Vengeance... but they could've devoted 2 more minutes to him doing it in a more stealthy way. A minor gripe.
The gripes are small. The plot holes, which were massive in the first film and really took me out of enjoying the experience and having Star Trek return, were pretty absent in this film. I enjoyed it. Hope you all do too!
Before I say anything:
1. I am a life long Trekkie
2. I LOVED Star Trek (2009) and felt it was faithful to the spirit of Star Trek
3. For a summer blockbuster, I am easy to please
... STID is horrifically and aggressively bad. After a strong first 1/4th, it takes a nosedive into some pretty hammy and cheesy storytelling. I'm not going to go into too much detail, but the entire movie was one long string of "trekisms" being shoehorned in (i.e. this is where you're supposed to yell "KHAAAAN!!!!").
1.5/5 stars. Ya... really. My hopes were high, but now they are dashed
1. I am a life long Trekkie
2. I LOVED Star Trek (2009) and felt it was faithful to the spirit of Star Trek
3. For a summer blockbuster, I am easy to please
... STID is horrifically and aggressively bad. After a strong first 1/4th, it takes a nosedive into some pretty hammy and cheesy storytelling. I'm not going to go into too much detail, but the entire movie was one long string of "trekisms" being shoehorned in (i.e. this is where you're supposed to yell "KHAAAAN!!!!").
1.5/5 stars. Ya... really. My hopes were high, but now they are dashed
Came back from the midnight showing here. Have to say this was really an extremely solid effort. I think that Abrams & Co. have hit their stride now.
A few mental notes that I made, neither of these are pros or cons, just things I noticed:
Opening sequence = Classic.
Kirk definitely matures after Pike's death. He's still a little careless and arrogant in the face of authority (namely how he smarted off a couple of times to Pike.) After that, he's a lot more mature, not making so many wisecracks. You really see him being Kirk.
A lot of tears were shed by the characters in this film.
SpockPrime seemed to have discovered Just For Vulcan Men hair dye.
Scotty has a rather surprisingly prominent role in the film.
The models behind Marcus', definitely nice touch.
Not sure that I'm warming up to John Cho as Sulu quite yet.
Klingon sequence = Awesome.
LOVED the human touch to it, with the music they were listening to in the social settings namely. I felt that Star Trek became WAY too elitist by having everyone listening to Opera and Orchestra stuff. The bar scene where they're listening to some sort of rock/blues song with, *gasp* lyrics, really grounded that scene for me.
I gave this a solid A- (although I accidentally went for B+, which is okay haha.)
The only thing I might even put in the "Con" or "Khan" category would be the Kirk's Death/Magic Blood thing. It wasn't bad, but I didn't feel that it really moved the story along either. That is literally it. People who were annoyed with Lens Flares the last time will have little to complain about this time.
A few mental notes that I made, neither of these are pros or cons, just things I noticed:
Opening sequence = Classic.
Kirk definitely matures after Pike's death. He's still a little careless and arrogant in the face of authority (namely how he smarted off a couple of times to Pike.) After that, he's a lot more mature, not making so many wisecracks. You really see him being Kirk.
A lot of tears were shed by the characters in this film.
SpockPrime seemed to have discovered Just For Vulcan Men hair dye.
Scotty has a rather surprisingly prominent role in the film.
The models behind Marcus', definitely nice touch.
Not sure that I'm warming up to John Cho as Sulu quite yet.
Klingon sequence = Awesome.
LOVED the human touch to it, with the music they were listening to in the social settings namely. I felt that Star Trek became WAY too elitist by having everyone listening to Opera and Orchestra stuff. The bar scene where they're listening to some sort of rock/blues song with, *gasp* lyrics, really grounded that scene for me.
I gave this a solid A- (although I accidentally went for B+, which is okay haha.)
The only thing I might even put in the "Con" or "Khan" category would be the Kirk's Death/Magic Blood thing. It wasn't bad, but I didn't feel that it really moved the story along either. That is literally it. People who were annoyed with Lens Flares the last time will have little to complain about this time.
Running and protesting. And telling off his ewok.
I did laugh out loud at "I'm running!"
Speaking of plotholes, I was surprised at how tight the script was as far as plotholes go. Trek films are usually full of them, and as much as I enjoyed 2009, a lot of the plot had me going "What?" though it was a lot of fun (unlike a lot of Trek films) so you didn't really bother holding them against it.
No, it was genius-level savagery he wanted to exploit. More like asking a Roman to help you sever a head.
But Kirk sacrificed himself to save his crew???
Oh sure, that was bad. The way it just sat there in the front of frame, waiting to be discovered. Definitely one for the slow learners.
Many reasons, all exhaustively debated across social media.
42 times! And you say you don't like repetition?
Personally I liked the new things (and the familiar things) the twist said about the characters -- but yeah, on first viewing the repeated dialogue was distracting.As much as I love TWOK, I always found those scenes sad but somehow stilted, repressed... almost too formal. It may be sacrilege, but I actually prefer this version.
Anyway, I'm sorry you had such an unsatisfying experience, but appreciate your polite efforts to detail your criticisms.
A
Amaris
Guest
Holy sweet mother of the Santa Maria's left booby, this movie was great! I managed to absorb the whole movie in one showing, but it will take time to process all of it. Still, a fantastic effort, and a worthy sequel to the first movie.
Also, Scotty's running down the long gangway, and then you can hear him out of breath and complaining.
The humor was toned down a bit this time around, but they did a fantastic job keeping the tight moments tight, the dark moments dark, and the funny moments truly funny. All in all, a great job, I gave it an A+. I was impressed.
Also, Scotty's running down the long gangway, and then you can hear him out of breath and complaining.
The humor was toned down a bit this time around, but they did a fantastic job keeping the tight moments tight, the dark moments dark, and the funny moments truly funny. All in all, a great job, I gave it an A+. I was impressed.
And like others have said, this was the first movie where I was actually terrified by the Klingons. I love the new look.
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