Star Trek III

[Admiral Buzzkill]

All in all, it's not a very good film - the script is ridiculously superficial in a number of respects. None of the major events in the movie - getting McCoy out of jail, Uhura commandeering the transporter station, the theft of the Enterprise, Kruge's defeat to mention the most obvious - would unfold as they do if not for the fact that everyone in the story other than the Enterprise regulars (and Sarek) are written to be stone stupid.

Yes, fans can make excuses for the inability of the other characters to notice what's going on in front of them, ask simple questions, anticipate any of their adversaries' behavior or take any intelligent action...but making up reasons for such nonsense doesn't make it less nonsensical.

 

[CaptainMatt]

A rather intriguing post, Legion. Thanks for taking the time to post it to this ongoing discussion. I must concur that the top brass in this film were not operating on all thrusters at all. If Admiral Morrow really knew Kirk as he claimed to-he would have known once Kirk's mind is made up, there's no stopping him. Thanks again, Legion.

 

[Captrek]

I think TSFS’s reputation may suffer somewhat from being sandwiched between TWOK and TVH, two towering achievements. It’s like Khloe Kardashian, who is a gorgeous woman, but widely regarded as the relatively “unattractive” one because she’s always seen with Kourtney and Kim, who are absolutely incredible.

 

[sonak]

All in all, it's not a very good film - the script is ridiculously superficial in a number of respects. None of the major events in the movie - getting McCoy out of jail, Uhura commandeering the transporter station, the theft of the Enterprise, Kruge's defeat to mention the most obvious - would unfold as they do if not for the fact that everyone in the story other than the Enterprise regulars (and Sarek) are written to be stone stupid.

Yes, fans can make excuses for the inability of the other characters to notice what's going on in front of them, ask simple questions, anticipate any of their adversaries' behavior or take any intelligent action...but making up reasons for such nonsense doesn't make it less nonsensical.

Eh, I don't think the non-TOS crew is written any stupider than say Khan in TWOK, or that it's any different from Spock being THE ONLY ONE in all of Starfleet to discover who the Probe is trying to communicate with in TVH.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Many, including the friends I was with, was very upset about that because "Kirk would never sacrifice his ship." And they were right, it was waaaaay out of character.

They obviously missed "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", because the self-destruct sequence was an homage to the similar scene in that ep.

After premiere night, I did a cartoon for our ST newsletter, in which the whole audience is shouting back at the screen: "Abort destruct sequence, code 1-2-3-continuity."

 

[22 Stars]

Those accusing Admiral Morrow of being less than sharp also are assuming that he truly WANTED to stop Kirk, and wasn't just relaying orders given to him.

 

[SeerSGB]

Not my first film experience but I did see it in the theater and it was a blast. I remember people clapping and cheering when the Enterprise cleared spacedock and cheering as well when the film went over and Spock was back.

Yep, they did the same thing at the theater I saw it in as well. But when the Enterprise went screaming across the sky in flames, the audience started booing and many walked out.

Many, including the friends I was with, was very upset about that because "Kirk would never sacrifice his ship." And they were right, it was waaaaay out of character.

The only redeeming part was the last scene where Kirk and Spock are finally united ("The needs of one outweigh the needs of the many.")

Geez, I was just damn happy Nimoy was back in the franchise.

It was way out of character for Kirk to take a near-impossible situation and turn it into a victory, thereby saving his crew?

I disagree, I think it was one of Kirk's finest moments in the movies.

I think it's real moment of growth on the part of Kirk's character. As much as it hurts him, and the audience, the Enterprise still just a ship *in universe* and Spock's life is more important.

 

[Captrek]

Yep, they did the same thing at the theater I saw it in as well. But when the Enterprise went screaming across the sky in flames, the audience started booing and many walked out.

Many, including the friends I was with, was very upset about that because "Kirk would never sacrifice his ship." And they were right, it was waaaaay out of character.

The only redeeming part was the last scene where Kirk and Spock are finally united ("The needs of one outweigh the needs of the many.")

Geez, I was just damn happy Nimoy was back in the franchise.

It was way out of character for Kirk to take a near-impossible situation and turn it into a victory, thereby saving his crew?

I disagree, I think it was one of Kirk's finest moments in the movies.

I think it's real moment of growth on the part of Kirk's character. As much as it hurts him, and the audience, the Enterprise still just a ship *in universe* and Spock's life is more important.

It wasn't just Spock's life at that point. The lives of Kirk, McCoy, Scott, Sulu, Chekov, and Saavik were all in the balance as well.

And, painful as it may have been to admit it, the Enterprise was already lost. The automation center had failed. They had no control over anything. No manuevering, no weapons, no shields, and no crew. The unpleasant choice was this: destroy her, or give her to the Klingons.

 

[Trimm]

It also harkens back to Kirk's "I don't believe in the no win scenario." from TWOK in many ways.

 

[DataLoreSpock]

2 Things.
1. I agree with Commander Trimm's statement on how Star Trek III helps structure Kirk's belief in a no-win scenario.
2. I love Commander Trimm's signature. Patrick is a philosophical genius.

 

[Lumi]

I started from the beginning, and didn't care too much for the first two. The third was the one that made me fall in love, so it is special to me, yes.

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

Thinking about it, tts interesting to watch the Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock back to back, as II seems to deconstruct elements of the original series, while III overtly celebrates them.

WOK has a villain born out of the hero's mistake, young captain Kirk reduced to an old admiral at a desk, the peaceful Federation seeming more militarized, the great Enterprise as a training vessel, an operatic tone, a major character like Spock having to sacrifice himself without an easy way out, and a bittersweet ending that could have reasonably been the conclusion for the crew.

SFS on the other hand though seems like a big TOS tribute. A devious Klingon villain with a nefarious plot, Kirk breaking the rules, big ensemble moments with the crew, wacky aliens, Pon Farr scene, a tribble cameo, Sarek's return (complete with mind meld), a self destruct sequence code right out of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", an old fashioned Kirk fist fight in the climax, a Spock eyebrow raise to conclude the film, and a promise that the adventure will continue.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Thinking about it, II seems to deconstruct elements of the original series, while III overtly celebrates them. SFS seems like a big TOS tribute.

This is part of why I love Trek 3 and why Harve Bennet deserves more "hosannas" from fans. Not only did the films become greater popular successes under his watchful eye, he was (and this is key) respectful to the original series and its fans. He watched every - single - episode before working on TWOK. TSFS was going to be an anti-climax at the end no matter what, since the title pretty much told us that Spock was going to return (what, they weren't gonna find him?). Rather than just ride the crest, Bennett took the opportunity to show the fans that Spock was as important to the characters as he was to us. In the process, he demonstrated what he knew about the original series and he had serious cred in that department. He didn't write this with five other guys, he did it solo. He worked in all of that amazing Trek trivia and instead of them being simply "nods and tips of the hat" like some films would do, he made them part of the plot. It is a story that comfortably fits into the universe established in the 60's. It feels like it belongs.

Star Trek III is a now-underrated gem and the last time the original characters had a film that didn't feel like a parody or a half-comedy. And it sure as hell didn't pander to the masses. You either followed it or you didn't. Luckily, back then, a lot more people were into Trek, so it was able to make a nice profit. I miss those days.

 

[CaptainMatt]

Thinking about it, II seems to deconstruct elements of the original series, while III overtly celebrates them. SFS seems like a big TOS tribute.

This is part of why I love Trek 3 and why Harve Bennet deserves more "hosannas" from fans. Not only did the films become greater popular successes under his watchful eye, he was (and this is key) respectful to the original series and its fans. He watched every - single - episode before working on TWOK. TSFS was going to be an anti-climax at the end no matter what, since the title pretty much told us that Spock was going to return (what, they weren't gonna find him?). Rather than just ride the crest, Bennett took the opportunity to show the fans that Spock was as important to the characters as he was to us. In the process, he demonstrated what he knew about the original series and he had serious cred in that department. He didn't write this with five other guys, he did it solo. He worked in all of that amazing Trek trivia and instead of them being simply "nods and tips of the hat" like some films would do, he made them part of the plot. It is a story that comfortably fits into the universe established in the 60's. It feels like it belongs.

Star Trek III is a now-underrated gem and the last time the original characters had a film that didn't feel like a parody or a half-comedy. And it sure as hell didn't pander to the masses. You either followed it or you didn't. Luckily, back then, a lot more people were into Trek, so it was able to make a nice profit. I miss those days.

This brings up a valid point, one often overlooked by so-called fans. It is NOT necessary to make a film that appeals to the general mass audience in order to make a profit. Trek III was, as Leonard Nimoy described it, "an integral story" and it did well at the time.

 

[Therin of Andor]

This brings up a valid point, one often overlooked by so-called fans. It is NOT necessary to make a film that appeals to the general mass audience in order to make a profit. Trek III was, as Leonard Nimoy described it, "an integral story" and it did well at the time.

Keep in mind though, that ST III did not get a theatrical release in many parts of Europe. It also hadn't come out there, yet, on VHS sell-thru. That's why the "what happened in the last two movies" montage was made to be added to the front of the European release of ST IV.

 

[CaptainMatt]

And your point is.....?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Over the years, I've waffled over which is better, III or IV. But both are certainly better than V-X inclusive, with only the possible exception of FC/VIII.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And your point is.....?

Movies are meant to make maximum profits. You said, "It is NOT necessary to make a film that appeals to the general mass audience in order to make a profit", but Paramount's film, ST III, lost a large piece of the international market by not having a broad enough appeal.

 

[Captrek]

The ability of TWOK and TVH to appeal to more than just Trekkers is why we got TNG. The TNG films made no effort to appeal to anyone other than committed Trekkers, and they almost killed the franchise. JJ Abrams has given the franchise new life by creating a film that appealed to a broad audience.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The TNG films made no effort to appeal to anyone other than committed Trekkers, and they almost killed the franchise.

The financial successes of "Generations" (with Kirk) and "First Contact" would demonstrate that those films did get the necessary appeal happening with the general public.