Star Trek Fundamentalism

[boozebum]

I must fairly new to watching trek. For years I thought it sucked. Watched a few of the older episodes, and found they were okay. The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are not too shabby, I have to admit. I only really started watching a few months ago.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my two cents. While I agree with the gist of what he has to say, the OP is a gigantic douchebag. I haven't seen this much vitriol in a while (I generally avoid boards flooded with trolls). It is really off putting to those who are curious in the franchise and look up the various message boards when they find hate spewing filled threads like these.

Seriously, claiming that anybody who points out the vitriolic nature of your posts are acting as spoilers to divert attention from you messianic message is the stupidest argument I have heard this year to date.

For a guy who is supposedly going after "fundamentalism", it's ironic you post whole bunch of "truths" and accuse people of acting as spoilers and calling them names (Trekmujahadeen?) when they happen to disagree with you. Even people who agree with your fundamental premise but disagree with your obnoxious tone and delivery are not spared.

Seriously, slapping your self on the back because you are "saying what needs to be said" is pretty conceited of you. Bloody Hell, I have only started reading up on Trek a few months ago and I knew this stuff.

Please excuse me while I crap myself in awe of your profound wisdom, oh wise one.

As for the film, I hope it does well. Star Trek would do well to drop a lot of the techno babble. To me, the franchise looks too "clean". The uniforms are clean, the ships are clean, and even getting shot by a laser looks "clean". It needs more grittiness to it. If the film can deliver this, I think Star Trek could bring in a lot of new fans.

 

[Lashmore]

One must take any fan of trek, when they step onto the pedestal, with a grain of salt, despite which side of the argument they are on.

Ignore all the comments which are attacks and / or self absorbed remarks based on their personal feelings and simply keep the subject matter (when possible) of what they are trying to say.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

You know...

Closing this will just allow flames to spread elsewhere as we've seen. No amount of locks have stopped the hostility on the topics of new vs old, etc.

Smartest action? leave this thread open for the flames, may have the odd chance of reducing flames in new threads.

Or maybe the Mods could start enforcing the rules about trolling and flaming...

 

[Lashmore]

Trolling is such a subjective term however. On one of its base emaning you could be cosndiered trolling right now...still defending you view on mod action. Then I can be considered trolling now to for replying to you once more on an opposite view of the subject.

let em flame here, else they flame in another thread...which will happen anyway. Each flame you put out, a new flame errupts elsewhere. best put them in the same little field of leaves to burn in a contained space.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I must fairly new to watching trek. For years I thought it sucked. Watched a few of the older episodes, and found they were okay. The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are not too shabby, I have to admit. I only really started watching a few months ago.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my two cents. While I agree with the gist of what he has to say, the OP is a gigantic douchebag. I haven't seen this much vitriol in a while (I generally avoid boards flooded with trolls). It is really off putting to those who are curious in the franchise and look up the various message boards when they find hate spewing filled threads like these.

Seriously, claiming that anybody who points out the vitriolic nature of your posts are acting as spoilers to divert attention from you messianic message is the stupidest argument I have heard this year to date.

For a guy who is supposedly going after "fundamentalism", it's ironic you post whole bunch of "truths" and accuse people of acting as spoilers and calling them names (Trekmujahadeen?) when they happen to disagree with you. Even people who agree with your fundamental premise but disagree with your obnoxious tone and delivery are not spared.

Seriously, slapping your self on the back because you are "saying what needs to be said" is pretty conceited of you. Bloody Hell, I have only started reading up on Trek a few months ago and I knew this stuff.

Please excuse me while I crap myself in awe of your profound wisdom, oh wise one.

As for the film, I hope it does well. Star Trek would do well to drop a lot of the techno babble. To me, the franchise looks too "clean". The uniforms are clean, the ships are clean, and even getting shot by a laser looks "clean". It needs more grittiness to it. If the film can deliver this, I think Star Trek could bring in a lot of new fans.

I'm slowly coming to the mind that Plumster may be joking a bit. Or at least I hope he is, for his own sake!

 

[Jon1701]

A split in fandom is upon us it seems to me.

1) There are those who, no matter what, will denounce this film as divisive, destructive and evil. They agitate, they snipe, they cry rape.

I despise them, they sicken me, they killed Trek.

2) There are those who welcome a new beginning and a chance to what a fresh perspective will bring to the franchise. They are what Trek is about, they are open minded and willing to give it a chance.

I love these guys, they are Trek.

...
...
...
If a big budget film with a big production value cannot reinvigorate the franchise then I am happy to consign Trek to posterity and reflect, at leisure, on the bits I loved while ignoring what I hated as well as those who killed a friend while protesting 'we told you so'.

You screwed it up with your love of registry numbers, canon violations, lack of imagination and self important demographic that reduced Trek to a soap opera set in outer space.

You only have yourselves to blame - have the guts to identify yourselves and justify your ignorance.

I dare you.

Too much hot air.

I was with you in the opening two paragrahs but you'd lost me by the end. In fact, you'd annoyed me.

Tone is often a hard thing to nail down, but you talk about being accepting and open-minded before trampling over your own argument with a bunch of sneering and finger pointing.

Your argument is conflicting.

People likes what they likes. There's no black and white here. As stated throughout this thread, a lot of us are a mixture of both. They will be a hardcore sat at home with their arms folded on May 8th, but the vast majority are going to see this thing with an open mind.

Can't I like Voyager and Enterprise yet welcome change? Is there not room for people who are canon obsessed and those who don't worry so much?

 

[Irishman]

Quick question - not to derail the OP's thread...

Oh, no. We wouldn't want that.

...but by what criteria did "Enterprise" bomb?

Pretty much all criteria, I think.

I disagree. Perhaps you could give some creative examples, since financial topics bore me and I'm not prepared to waste time engaging in them.

 

[Irishman]

Hmmm... "Star Trek Fundamentalism" Let's see, you have a group of people saying that if you are critical of a part of the franchise, that you aren't "really" a fan. Yeah, I'd say that description fits, though it's directed at the wrong group of people. What I find most interesting about whiny threads like this is that for all the whiny bitchy fans whining and bitching about the movie for whatever reason they don't like it, you have this other group of fans who whine and bitch about the other fans who are whining and bitching. I wish I could say that this was something new, but this has pretty much been the case for everything in the franchise - you have a critical group and a group that likes to call those people "bashers", whether they actually are or if they go through any effort to be thoughtful and explain what they don't like about something.

Abrams does not have over 9000 penises, and they are not raping anyone's childhood.

Star Trek fans are allowed to not like a movie/series/episode(s) and still call themselves fans - it's called having an opinion, and it won't affect the outcome of the new movie no matter what it is and who has it.

Flash =/ good, just look at Nemesis.

I feel the strange urge to go out and buy a new Mac.

That is all, you can continue your pathetic whining now.

Well, the OP did acknowledge there was a new division in fans.

Oooohh, which Mac are you gonna get?

 

[Plumster]

I must fairly new to watching trek. For years I thought it sucked. Watched a few of the older episodes, and found they were okay. The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are not too shabby, I have to admit. I only really started watching a few months ago.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my two cents. While I agree with the gist of what he has to say, the OP is a gigantic douchebag. I haven't seen this much vitriol in a while (I generally avoid boards flooded with trolls). It is really off putting to those who are curious in the franchise and look up the various message boards when they find hate spewing filled threads like these.

Seriously, claiming that anybody who points out the vitriolic nature of your posts are acting as spoilers to divert attention from you messianic message is the stupidest argument I have heard this year to date.

For a guy who is supposedly going after "fundamentalism", it's ironic you post whole bunch of "truths" and accuse people of acting as spoilers and calling them names (Trekmujahadeen?) when they happen to disagree with you. Even people who agree with your fundamental premise but disagree with your obnoxious tone and delivery are not spared.

Seriously, slapping your self on the back because you are "saying what needs to be said" is pretty conceited of you. Bloody Hell, I have only started reading up on Trek a few months ago and I knew this stuff.

Please excuse me while I crap myself in awe of your profound wisdom, oh wise one.

As for the film, I hope it does well. Star Trek would do well to drop a lot of the techno babble. To me, the franchise looks too "clean". The uniforms are clean, the ships are clean, and even getting shot by a laser looks "clean". It needs more grittiness to it. If the film can deliver this, I think Star Trek could bring in a lot of new fans.

Well my son - you should have read the thread properly first because I prefaced everything in my OP with 'I REALISE THE JUXTAPOSITION OF MY POSITION' or words to that effect.

What's a douchebag please? And does the above now make you one?

 

[Plumster]

I must fairly new to watching trek. For years I thought it sucked. Watched a few of the older episodes, and found they were okay. The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are not too shabby, I have to admit. I only really started watching a few months ago.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my two cents. While I agree with the gist of what he has to say, the OP is a gigantic douchebag. I haven't seen this much vitriol in a while (I generally avoid boards flooded with trolls). It is really off putting to those who are curious in the franchise and look up the various message boards when they find hate spewing filled threads like these.

Seriously, claiming that anybody who points out the vitriolic nature of your posts are acting as spoilers to divert attention from you messianic message is the stupidest argument I have heard this year to date.

For a guy who is supposedly going after "fundamentalism", it's ironic you post whole bunch of "truths" and accuse people of acting as spoilers and calling them names (Trekmujahadeen?) when they happen to disagree with you. Even people who agree with your fundamental premise but disagree with your obnoxious tone and delivery are not spared.

Seriously, slapping your self on the back because you are "saying what needs to be said" is pretty conceited of you. Bloody Hell, I have only started reading up on Trek a few months ago and I knew this stuff.

Please excuse me while I crap myself in awe of your profound wisdom, oh wise one.

As for the film, I hope it does well. Star Trek would do well to drop a lot of the techno babble. To me, the franchise looks too "clean". The uniforms are clean, the ships are clean, and even getting shot by a laser looks "clean". It needs more grittiness to it. If the film can deliver this, I think Star Trek could bring in a lot of new fans.

I'm slowly coming to the mind that Plumster may be joking a bit. Or at least I hope he is, for his own sake!

Correct mate - how on earth could I accuse the anyone of being a zealot if I was not doing so with my tongue firmly placed in my cheek?

Funny how they all come out from under their rocks though innit?

 

[Rii]

how on earth could I accuse the anyone of being a zealot if I was not doing so with my tongue firmly placed in my cheek?

Funny how they all come out from under their rocks though innit?

Zerglings counter Zealots.

 

[Captain X]

Trolling is such a subjective term however. On one of its base emaning you could be cosndiered trolling right now...still defending you view on mod action. Then I can be considered trolling now to for replying to you once more on an opposite view of the subject.

let em flame here, else they flame in another thread...which will happen anyway. Each flame you put out, a new flame errupts elsewhere. best put them in the same little field of leaves to burn in a contained space.

Uh, if they flame or troll, they should get warned, and if they get warned enough times, they will get banned - problem solved. That being said, I actually feel sorry for this forum's mods.

Well, the OP did acknowledge there was a new division in fans.

And very arrogantly presumed his was the "right" division, since only his opinion matters, and only those who validate it aren't "fundamentalists". There's so much irony in the OP that any shirts you press with it would feel just like paper and have creases so sharp you'd cut yourself trying to pick those shirts up. I wish I'd had it back when I was in AFROTC, it would have been perfect for those stubborn BDUs.

Oooohh, which Mac are you gonna get?

I want a case mod that looks like the Abrams-prise.

 

[Ghrakh]

Correct mate - how on earth could I accuse the anyone of being a zealot if I was not doing so with my tongue firmly placed in my cheek?

Funny how they all come out from under their rocks though innit?

Textbook troll: posting merely to get a reaction, fishing for responses. I don't know about here, but on other boards I frequent, this is pretty clearly defined...

 

[Plumster]

Correct mate - how on earth could I accuse the anyone of being a zealot if I was not doing so with my tongue firmly placed in my cheek?

Funny how they all come out from under their rocks though innit?

Textbook troll: posting merely to get a reaction, fishing for responses. I don't know about here, but on other boards I frequent, this is pretty clearly defined...

Come on - let's debate the OP and not what you think incorrectly was my intention.

Why are you trying to spoil the debate - it's been very interesting thus far.

 

[Plumster]

Trolling is such a subjective term however. On one of its base emaning you could be cosndiered trolling right now...still defending you view on mod action. Then I can be considered trolling now to for replying to you once more on an opposite view of the subject.

let em flame here, else they flame in another thread...which will happen anyway. Each flame you put out, a new flame errupts elsewhere. best put them in the same little field of leaves to burn in a contained space.

Uh, if they flame or troll, they should get warned, and if they get warned enough times, they will get banned - problem solved. That being said, I actually feel sorry for this forum's mods.

Well, the OP did acknowledge there was a new division in fans.

And very arrogantly presumed his was the "right" division, since only his opinion matters, and only those who validate it aren't "fundamentalists". There's so much irony in the OP that any shirts you press with it would feel just like paper and have creases so sharp you'd cut yourself trying to pick those shirts up. I wish I'd had it back when I was in AFROTC, it would have been perfect for those stubborn BDUs.

Oooohh, which Mac are you gonna get?

I want a case mod that looks like the Abrams-prise.

Wrong - I DO NOT ASSUME I AM RIGHT but it's not my fault if I simply make superb points and the zealots can't is it?

MAKE A CONVINCING CASE AND PROVE ME WRONG.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Quick question has the great Trek XI Fan War of 2009 started already becuase I thought we still had 2 months to go.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

You know...

Closing this will just allow flames to spread elsewhere as we've seen. No amount of locks have stopped the hostility on the topics of new vs old, etc.

Smartest action? leave this thread open for the flames, may have the odd chance of reducing flames in new threads.

Or maybe the Mods could start enforcing the rules about trolling and flaming...

This is the SECOND post you've made about this. And believe me, we are ALL watching this thread carefully and have discussed it in the BR. So how about you knock off this 'not doing your job' crap? I believe you have been contacted via PM about this as a direct result of the BR discussion of your concerns, but the bottom line is this: you not getting your way is NOT the equivalent to us not doing our jobs.

Unfortunately (for you), we don't happen to agree with you in your assertion that this discussion has been a one-way trollfest.

If and when we feel it gets there, action will be taken at that time.

Until then, knock off the backseat modding.

Thanks.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I must fairly new to watching trek. For years I thought it sucked. Watched a few of the older episodes, and found they were okay. The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are not too shabby, I have to admit. I only really started watching a few months ago.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my two cents. While I agree with the gist of what he has to say, the OP is a gigantic douchebag. I haven't seen this much vitriol in a while (I generally avoid boards flooded with trolls). It is really off putting to those who are curious in the franchise and look up the various message boards when they find hate spewing filled threads like these.

Seriously, claiming that anybody who points out the vitriolic nature of your posts are acting as spoilers to divert attention from you messianic message is the stupidest argument I have heard this year to date.

For a guy who is supposedly going after "fundamentalism", it's ironic you post whole bunch of "truths" and accuse people of acting as spoilers and calling them names (Trekmujahadeen?) when they happen to disagree with you. Even people who agree with your fundamental premise but disagree with your obnoxious tone and delivery are not spared.

Seriously, slapping your self on the back because you are "saying what needs to be said" is pretty conceited of you. Bloody Hell, I have only started reading up on Trek a few months ago and I knew this stuff.

Please excuse me while I crap myself in awe of your profound wisdom, oh wise one.

As for the film, I hope it does well. Star Trek would do well to drop a lot of the techno babble. To me, the franchise looks too "clean". The uniforms are clean, the ships are clean, and even getting shot by a laser looks "clean". It needs more grittiness to it. If the film can deliver this, I think Star Trek could bring in a lot of new fans.

boozebum,

I realize that you are new to this board, but around here directly referring to another poster as a 'douchbag' is flaming.

Since you are shiny new, I won't warn you this time. But I would STRONGLY suggest that you go back and read the board rules you agreed to when you signed up for this board. Reading the FAQ might not be a bad idea either.

Because next time we get into this namecalling crap, it will be a warning for flaming.

You are welcome to attack arguments all you like - but you are NOT free to attack other posters with namecalling.

Thanks.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Quick question has the great Trek XI Fan War of 2009 started already becuase I thought we still had 2 months to go.

That boat sailed a LONG time ago, brother.

The Great Trek XI Fan War of 2009 started in, like, 2007.

 

[Cmdr Sho]

Star Trek Fundamentalism
A split in fandom is upon us it seems to me.

1) There are those who, no matter what, will denounce this film as divisive, destructive and evil. They agitate, they snipe, they cry rape.

I despise them, they sicken me, they killed Trek.

2) There are those who welcome a new beginning and a chance to what a fresh perspective will bring to the franchise. They are what Trek is about, they are open minded and willing to give it a chance.

I love these guys, they are Trek.

The irony inherent in the juxtapostion of my own position is obvious but I'll press on anyway.

Those whom I despise have had this coming for years and I'm laughing my socks off at them - they like to tell us what Trek is, they like to tell us that Voyager was worth watching week in and week out, they like to keep Trek as a dirty little secret moulded in their own image, increasingly inward looking and obsessed with it's own belly button rather than scanning the horizon and seeking out new life and new civilisations. A few thousand zealots ruined a casual audiences enjoyment of Trek and it all it could have been, the casual audience watched it because it was good and not inward looking and not concerned about something that might have happened in an episode 20 years previously. The zealots did this to Trek, they were responsible for it's decline and death. These cretins forgot Trek is a business too and that it needs Joe Public to watch it as well, they disenfranchised the millions who kept it going by watching it and bringing in the advertising revenue and sales of the product around the globe.

And do you know what really pisses the Zealot's off?

The studio is not listening to them any more, no more letter writing campaigns that are noted, no more 'leaks' from the cast over plot details not to their liking and no more making a film for a few lonely people hiding in their cellars.

I love that, I can't tell you how amusing I find this.

Trek died and what lived on, in the form of characters we love, is what will be imagined up on the screen in May. We might love it,we might hate it but it had to happen and it had to be done to show once and for all that geriatric actors running around in wigs and corsets on shaky sets is not what Trek is or should be, that idiot aliens with the de rigour bumpy foreheads frying eggs in the mess while in the 'Delta Quadrant' is not really entertainment.

Trek may die in May but what it takes with it once and for all is the idiots, the zealots and fundamentalists who contributed to it's demise. Fuck them and fuck what they did. JJ's vision of Trek is down to them if you think it through, they are to blame for all of this one way or the other actually.

If a big budget film with a big production value cannot reinvigorate the franchise then I am happy to consign Trek to posterity and reflect, at leisure, on the bits I loved while ignoring what I hated as well as those who killed a friend while protesting 'we told you so'.

You screwed it up with your love of registry numbers, canon violations, lack of imagination and self important demographic that reduced Trek to a soap opera set in outer space.

You only have yourselves to blame - have the guts to identify yourselves and justify your ignorance.

I dare you.

this may not be in line with the current post but....

for you to say this and call yourself a trekkie is totally wrong. true trekkies do not say things like this... i am a fan of all trek.... fan and shows... i dont believe that you are a trekkie with your narrow mindedness.... and i would not beleive anything that comes out ofd your mouth..... i am exemely offened by what you have said and you are a disgrace to all of star trek.....