Star Trek Fundamentalism

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I threw down the gaunlet [sic]. I'm just waiting for someone to pick it up.

No you didn't. You just engaged in empty boasts and claims that you can't back up by performance.

 

[uniderth]

I have no problem getting other opinions and ideas. I wouldn't plan on being the director anyway. I know I'm not skilled enough for that.

What I would do is to determine which projects would be undertaken, ensure stories stay within continuity, make sure actors and designs work for any given story.

 

[uniderth]

Well, I'm now convinced by that list and the astounding quality of the scripts.

All hail the savior. Where do we pay the bet ?

You must be reading somthing into my posts that I don't intend. I didn't provide any scripts. Nor did i make any claim as being a saviour. Since I haven't won the bet there's not reason to pay it nor has any amount been determined.

No you didn't. You just engaged in empty boasts and claims that you can't back up by performance.

I have not made empty boasts and claims. My claim is valid: If I am in charge of Star Trek I can produce works that will both be new and excited, revitalize Star Trek, and stick within Star Trek continuity.

I have no performance history because I haven't been in a position to perform before.

 

[Borgminister]

I have no performance history because I haven't been in a position to perform before.

I wonder why?

 

[uniderth]

I wonder why?

Because I've never worked as part of a professional production company before.

 

[Lynx]

If those responsible for the movie had been smart and constructive, they shhould have come up with new characters and new stories, just like TNG was done once upon a time.

So in other words you are saying that the people involved in Star Treks 1-10 were not smart or not constructive? That's your line of logic at play.

No, you're twisting my words here.

Those movies did at least have the right actors, those who were well-known for personifying those characters and those movies could be seen as continuation of the TV series which were on air or had been that recently.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I have not made empty boasts and claims.

You have done exactly that, and no more.

My claim is valid...
I have no performance history because I haven't been in a position to perform before.

You misspelled a word. Your claim is vapid.

 

[Aragorn]

Okay, after uniderth, I think I've finally seen it all on here.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Okay, after uniderth, I think I've finally seen it all on here.

Wait for it...Wait for it...

There's one more trailer and the movie coming. I truly believe the worst is still ahead of us.

 

[Irishman]

A split in fandom is upon us it seems to me.

1) There are those who, no matter what, will denounce this film as divisive, destructive and evil. They agitate, they snipe, they cry rape.

I despise them, they sicken me, they killed Trek.

2) There are those who welcome a new beginning and a chance to what a fresh perspective will bring to the franchise. They are what Trek is about, they are open minded and willing to give it a chance.

I love these guys, they are Trek.

The irony inherent in the juxtapostion of my own position is obvious but I'll press on anyway.

Those whom I despise have had this coming for years and I'm laughing my socks off at them - they like to tell us what Trek is, they like to tell us that Voyager was worth watching week in and week out, they like to keep Trek as a dirty little secret moulded in their own image, increasingly inward looking and obsessed with it's own belly button rather than scanning the horizon and seeking out new life and new civilisations. A few thousand zealots ruined a casual audiences enjoyment of Trek and it all it could have been, the casual audience watched it because it was good and not inward looking and not concerned about something that might have happened in an episode 20 years previously. The zealots did this to Trek, they were responsible for it's decline and death. These cretins forgot Trek is a business too and that it needs Joe Public to watch it as well, they disenfranchised the millions who kept it going by watching it and bringing in the advertising revenue and sales of the product around the globe.

And do you know what really pisses the Zealot's off?

The studio is not listening to them any more, no more letter writing campaigns that are noted, no more 'leaks' from the cast over plot details not to their liking and no more making a film for a few lonely people hiding in their cellars.

I love that, I can't tell you how amusing I find this.

Trek died and what lived on, in the form of characters we love, is what will be imagined up on the screen in May. We might love it,we might hate it but it had to happen and it had to be done to show once and for all that geriatric actors running around in wigs and corsets on shaky sets is not what Trek is or should be, that idiot aliens with the de rigour bumpy foreheads frying eggs in the mess while in the 'Delta Quadrant' is not really entertainment.

Trek may die in May but what it takes with it once and for all is the idiots, the zealots and fundamentalists who contributed to it's demise. Fuck them and fuck what they did. JJ's vision of Trek is down to them if you think it through, they are to blame for all of this one way or the other actually.

If a big budget film with a big production value cannot reinvigorate the franchise then I am happy to consign Trek to posterity and reflect, at leisure, on the bits I loved while ignoring what I hated as well as those who killed a friend while protesting 'we told you so'.

You screwed it up with your love of registry numbers, canon violations, lack of imagination and self important demographic that reduced Trek to a soap opera set in outer space.

You only have yourselves to blame - have the guts to identify yourselves and justify your ignorance.

I dare you.

I would rather see Star Trek slip quietly in to history with it's honor intact, than to see an legend raped and dishonoured by those who care not for any thing but money and their own warped sense of entitlement to a franchise that is a living legend.

The Star Trek of my youth will die this May. What come after will no doubt be great science fiction, but Trek will be gone forever.

It only took 62 posts for someone to apparently use "rape" in an honest description of the new film.

D-R-A-M-A!!!

 

[Plumster]

A split in fandom is upon us it seems to me.

1) There are those who, no matter what, will denounce this film as divisive, destructive and evil. They agitate, they snipe, they cry rape.

I despise them, they sicken me, they killed Trek.

2) There are those who welcome a new beginning and a chance to what a fresh perspective will bring to the franchise. They are what Trek is about, they are open minded and willing to give it a chance.

I love these guys, they are Trek.

The irony inherent in the juxtapostion of my own position is obvious but I'll press on anyway.

Those whom I despise have had this coming for years and I'm laughing my socks off at them - they like to tell us what Trek is, they like to tell us that Voyager was worth watching week in and week out, they like to keep Trek as a dirty little secret moulded in their own image, increasingly inward looking and obsessed with it's own belly button rather than scanning the horizon and seeking out new life and new civilisations. A few thousand zealots ruined a casual audiences enjoyment of Trek and it all it could have been, the casual audience watched it because it was good and not inward looking and not concerned about something that might have happened in an episode 20 years previously. The zealots did this to Trek, they were responsible for it's decline and death. These cretins forgot Trek is a business too and that it needs Joe Public to watch it as well, they disenfranchised the millions who kept it going by watching it and bringing in the advertising revenue and sales of the product around the globe.

And do you know what really pisses the Zealot's off?

The studio is not listening to them any more, no more letter writing campaigns that are noted, no more 'leaks' from the cast over plot details not to their liking and no more making a film for a few lonely people hiding in their cellars.

I love that, I can't tell you how amusing I find this.

Trek died and what lived on, in the form of characters we love, is what will be imagined up on the screen in May. We might love it,we might hate it but it had to happen and it had to be done to show once and for all that geriatric actors running around in wigs and corsets on shaky sets is not what Trek is or should be, that idiot aliens with the de rigour bumpy foreheads frying eggs in the mess while in the 'Delta Quadrant' is not really entertainment.

Trek may die in May but what it takes with it once and for all is the idiots, the zealots and fundamentalists who contributed to it's demise. Fuck them and fuck what they did. JJ's vision of Trek is down to them if you think it through, they are to blame for all of this one way or the other actually.

If a big budget film with a big production value cannot reinvigorate the franchise then I am happy to consign Trek to posterity and reflect, at leisure, on the bits I loved while ignoring what I hated as well as those who killed a friend while protesting 'we told you so'.

You screwed it up with your love of registry numbers, canon violations, lack of imagination and self important demographic that reduced Trek to a soap opera set in outer space.

You only have yourselves to blame - have the guts to identify yourselves and justify your ignorance.

I dare you.

I would rather see Star Trek slip quietly in to history with it's honor intact, than to see an legend raped and dishonoured by those who care not for any thing but money and their own warped sense of entitlement to a franchise that is a living legend.

The Star Trek of my youth will die this May. What come after will no doubt be great science fiction, but Trek will be gone forever.

It only took 62 posts for someone to apparently use "rape" in an honest description of the new film.

D-R-A-M-A!!!

My thread has been raped.

Raped and murdered.

 

[Irishman]

A split in fandom is upon us it seems to me.

1) There are those who, no matter what, will denounce this film as divisive, destructive and evil. They agitate, they snipe, they cry rape.

I despise them, they sicken me, they killed Trek.

The irony inherent in the juxtapostion of my own position is obvious but I'll press on anyway.

Those whom I despise have had this coming for years and I'm laughing my socks off at them - they like to tell us what Trek is, they like to tell us that Voyager was worth watching week in and week out, they like to keep Trek as a dirty little secret moulded in their own image, increasingly inward looking and obsessed with it's own belly button rather than scanning the horizon and seeking out new life and new civilisations. A few thousand zealots ruined a casual audiences enjoyment of Trek and it all it could have been, the casual audience watched it because it was good and not inward looking and not concerned about something that might have happened in an episode 20 years previously. The zealots did this to Trek, they were responsible for it's decline and death. These cretins forgot Trek is a business too and that it needs Joe Public to watch it as well, they disenfranchised the millions who kept it going by watching it and bringing in the advertising revenue and sales of the product around the globe.

Wait what? Did you get born yesterday?

Most of the people who hate Abrams Trek absolutely hated Voyager and blasted it all the time. I was one of those people for crying out loud. Voyager was not Star Trek, it was a cheap gimmick show that didn't understand anything in regards to what made Star Trek so popular to begin with. Its pretty much what Abrams Trek is doing. Making it "kewl".

The only one I know personally, in real life, excited for Abrams Trek were the Voyager fans. So, you should probably do some actual research into the fandom before you make ridiculous assumptions that have no relation to the actual reality.

The fandom was fractured long ago. The DS9/VOY split was the biggest (TOS/TNG had one but TNG won everyone over for the most part to at least accept it.)

Voyager was written for the casual fans with no character arcs, no sense of greater in universe continuaty and blantant disregard to canon when it saw fit. Enterprise, the the series that dropped the Trek name to appeal to the casuals, BOMBED.

The sad thing is most of the so called "bashers" of the new direction of Trek, to appeal to the "casuals", have grown apathetic and left this site long ago. Thus an ever growing echo chamber of love of Abrams.

Quick question - not to derail the OP's thread, but by what criteria did "Enterprise" bomb?

 

[Plumster]

A split in fandom is upon us it seems to me.

1) There are those who, no matter what, will denounce this film as divisive, destructive and evil. They agitate, they snipe, they cry rape.

I despise them, they sicken me, they killed Trek.

The irony inherent in the juxtapostion of my own position is obvious but I'll press on anyway.

Those whom I despise have had this coming for years and I'm laughing my socks off at them - they like to tell us what Trek is, they like to tell us that Voyager was worth watching week in and week out, they like to keep Trek as a dirty little secret moulded in their own image, increasingly inward looking and obsessed with it's own belly button rather than scanning the horizon and seeking out new life and new civilisations. A few thousand zealots ruined a casual audiences enjoyment of Trek and it all it could have been, the casual audience watched it because it was good and not inward looking and not concerned about something that might have happened in an episode 20 years previously. The zealots did this to Trek, they were responsible for it's decline and death. These cretins forgot Trek is a business too and that it needs Joe Public to watch it as well, they disenfranchised the millions who kept it going by watching it and bringing in the advertising revenue and sales of the product around the globe.

Wait what? Did you get born yesterday?

Most of the people who hate Abrams Trek absolutely hated Voyager and blasted it all the time. I was one of those people for crying out loud. Voyager was not Star Trek, it was a cheap gimmick show that didn't understand anything in regards to what made Star Trek so popular to begin with. Its pretty much what Abrams Trek is doing. Making it "kewl".

The only one I know personally, in real life, excited for Abrams Trek were the Voyager fans. So, you should probably do some actual research into the fandom before you make ridiculous assumptions that have no relation to the actual reality.

The fandom was fractured long ago. The DS9/VOY split was the biggest (TOS/TNG had one but TNG won everyone over for the most part to at least accept it.)

Voyager was written for the casual fans with no character arcs, no sense of greater in universe continuaty and blantant disregard to canon when it saw fit. Enterprise, the the series that dropped the Trek name to appeal to the casuals, BOMBED.

The sad thing is most of the so called "bashers" of the new direction of Trek, to appeal to the "casuals", have grown apathetic and left this site long ago. Thus an ever growing echo chamber of love of Abrams.

Quick question - not to derail the OP's thread, but by what criteria did "Enterprise" bomb?

Rape probably. Go forward in time is good - go back in time and re-imagine is bad apparently.

On a personal note I thought it was an original take poorly executed. The Manny Soto stuff was a step in the right direction though.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Quick question - not to derail the OP's thread, but by what criteria did "Enterprise" bomb?

Not enough people watched it to keep it on the air.

There are a dozen additional answers that vary depending upon the tastes of the individual - personally I liked the show a lot; many trekkies hated every minute of the four years of it that they watched religiously while claiming otherwise. But bottom line is that the ratings sank and the ratings stank.

 

[Irishman]

I would rather see Star Trek slip quietly in to history with it's honor intact, than to see an legend raped and dishonoured by those who care not for any thing but money and their own warped sense of entitlement to a franchise that is a living legend.

The "warped sense of entitlement" belongs to long-timers who imagine that they ought to have some veto power over the efforts of the people who are actually working on Trek.

Never had it. Never will.

I am am "old timer" My love of Star Trek began as a Six year old child watching Kirk and Spock on a Black and White TV. It's hard to explain to someone who might not have the same history. I feel about Trek like it's family. It's been a constant all my life, a friend I could turn to. To see it bastardized is like a death of a loved brother.

This "New Trek" does not try to carry on, it seeks to replace. I don't expect you to understand. Nay I doubt you could.

Did you seriously just use "nay"???

D-R-A-M-A!!!

 

[Irishman]

So this new Star Trek movie is going to wipe every one of your previous Star Trek memories -- and all Star Trek merchandise -- from existence?

Let me try and explain One last time my feeling on this. Say you had a friend from childhood. One day this friend is in a horrible accident that leaves them disfigured and unable to relate to you.
Would you not resent even hate the accident that took your friend? Let me be clear. I will always love Star Trek in whatever it's incarnation. But the friend I knew all those years is gone. Now I have had my say. This whole discussion leaves me extremely melancholy.

I'm sorry, but I HAVE to say it:

D-R-A-M-A!!!

 

[Irishman]

I am am "old timer" My love of Star Trek began as a Six year old child watching Kirk and Spock on a Black and White TV. It's hard to explain to someone who might not have the same history.

Shouldn't be difficult - I started watching "Star Trek" the night it premiered on NBC. I was twelve, so I'm probably older than you.

And I really find the bathetic essays which regularly show up here rhetorically equating the fact that the studio has the temerity to produce a film that might not satisfy an individuals long-held preferences with the loss of loved ones (or worse, sexual assault) just embarrassing to read. Boo-hoo.

That is the "offended sense of entitlement" that runs through too much online trek fandom.

I understand what you are saying. Some people have a sense of duty to an old friend. Some don't. Some understand the importance of history and some don't. Some will sell their souls for One more film and special effects. And some won't. Some would tell the doctor to pull the plug on a dieing loved one to spare their suffering. And some, to selfhishly hang on to what has passed won't.

Some on this thread as or Klingon friends like to say...Have no honor.

Good gods-damn:

D-R-A-M-A!!!

 

[Plumster]

The "warped sense of entitlement" belongs to long-timers who imagine that they ought to have some veto power over the efforts of the people who are actually working on Trek.

Never had it. Never will.

I am am "old timer" My love of Star Trek began as a Six year old child watching Kirk and Spock on a Black and White TV. It's hard to explain to someone who might not have the same history. I feel about Trek like it's family. It's been a constant all my life, a friend I could turn to. To see it bastardized is like a death of a loved brother.

This "New Trek" does not try to carry on, it seeks to replace. I don't expect you to understand. Nay I doubt you could.

Did you seriously just use "nay"???

D-R-A-M-A!!!

Yes he/she did - another zebra reference to the 'old world' and as you were not there - you are not likely to get it. Spot on Irishman - you nailed it my celtic cousin.

You are correct BigC - I watched Star Trek on a colour TV in the 1970's on BBC1 on a Tuesday night after my tea. It was good, it gave me the taste.

However - I for one am glad your 'brother' died - it proves that Darwin was right all along.

Is this the best your religion can offer in the form of a defence of your destruction of Trek?

IS IT?

 

[Irishman]

bah that is going to far the other way.

what people will eventually do.. what many already do is just accept some parts of the whole they will like more then others.
that one thing isnt a threat to the mythos.
and people who may originally come in because they attracted to one aspect may broaden out to other stuff.

Well I'm glad I'm a Star Trek fan and not a canon fan.

There is no difference, for they are the same.

For some on this thread reason is a raging bonfire. But for others it is a dim and distant flicker.

Jeez!

Stop making me do this:

D-R-A-M-A!!!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well I'm glad I'm a Star Trek fan and not a canon fan.

There is no difference, for they are the same.

For some on this thread reason is a raging bonfire. But for others it is a dim and distant flicker.

Jeez!

Stop making me do this:

D-R-A-M-A!!!

No - D-R-A-Y-M-A!