Star Trek Finally Reveals Uhura Became Captain of Her Own Starship

[Locutus of Bored]

How could she lead a 4-5 year mission to the Lesser (Small?) Magellanic Cloud, some 199,000 light-years from Earth when it was going to take Voyager (with a sustainable cruise velocity of warp 9.975) 75 years to travel 70,000 light-years?

The idea of consistent travel times and warp speeds set sail with the Original Series and never looked back, nor should it be expected to. Things move at the speed of plot, whether you're in a series where it's supposed to be a long arduous journey across the galaxy, where you're "the only ship in the quadrant", on a day trip to the Galactic / Great Barrier or a five minute jaunt from the Neutral Zone back to Earth to fight the Borg.

It can be assumed that the Federation's (+ Klingon + Ferengi + Cardassian, etc.) accumulated knowledge of thousands of years of spacefaring civilizations has catalogued a metric Spockton of beneficial spatial anomalies and regions of space where warp works faster/more efficiently than normally.

In TNG 'Force of Nature', we even saw that the use of conventional warp travel can damage the fabric of subspace in some regions more than others (something which was dropped by the time Voyager and DS9 came around, though that was said in peripheral materials to be the reason for Voyager's variable geometry nacelles, IIRC), which brings to mind the possibility that repeated use of warp drive in certain highly trafficked regions of the galaxy over centuries (like say from Earth to the Neutral Zone outposts or between Earth and Vulcan) could have experienced a less damaging version of this malleability of subspace that results in less "drag" and vastly increased travel times and more efficient fuel use; your "warp highways" if you will.

Speed also seems to increase when the interstellar medium / stellar density decreases somewhat, like on the outskirts of the galaxy or between the Milky Way and its satellite galaxies. Maybe going directly through the bulk of the Milky Way like Voyager did (because they had to scavenge for resources / travel shortcuts / allies along the way) cost them some extra travel time, but was the best option because they didn't have the fuel and stores stocked up for a journey up and outside of the denser parts of the galactic plane.

The alternative to this of course is STV with the Enterprise (and its BoP tag-along) reaching the Great Barrier towards the "center" of the galaxy in about ten minutes, which I contend is because "God" was a Cytherian (the giant floating head aliens from TNG 'The Nth Degree) criminal imprisoned on the Eden planet, which is why God needed a starship to escape his prison. He telepathically sent Sybok the means to boost a starship's warp efficiency (just as had happened with Barclay, albeit then through a probe, which may be their official way of making contact) and bring the ship to the center of the galaxy, and the Klingons cloaked and merged with the Enterprise's warp bubble to follow them.

Anyway, I'm all over the place here, but my point is essentially it's difficult for such a huge shared universe produced over decades to try and maintain rigidly consistent travel times and speeds and rules, and it was already slipping as soon as the first series started. If doing so places limits on the types of stories you want to tell, then the story should come first, and you can always come up with an explanation later, or don't. YMMV.

 

[PCz911]

This thread has nothing to do with tos. Shouldn’t this be somewhere else?

sorry for the pedantic post, my ocd kicked in.

 

[valkyrie013]

The idea of consistent travel times and warp speeds set sail with the Original Series and never looked back, nor should it be expected to. Things move at the speed of plot, whether you're in a series where it's supposed to be a long arduous journey across the galaxy, where you're "the only ship in the quadrant", on a day trip to the Galactic / Great Barrier or a five minute jaunt from the Neutral Zone back to Earth to fight the Borg.

It can be assumed that the Federation's (+ Klingon + Ferengi + Cardassian, etc.) accumulated knowledge of thousands of years of spacefaring civilizations has catalogued a metric Spockton of beneficial spatial anomalies and regions of space where warp works faster/more efficiently than normally.

In TNG 'Force of Nature', we even saw that the use of conventional warp travel can damage the fabric of subspace in some regions more than others (something which was dropped by the time Voyager and DS9 came around, though that was said in peripheral materials to be the reason for Voyager's variable geometry nacelles, IIRC), which brings to mind the possibility that repeated use of warp drive in certain highly trafficked regions of the galaxy over centuries (like say from Earth to the Neutral Zone outposts or between Earth and Vulcan) could have experienced a less damaging version of this malleability of subspace that results in less "drag" and vastly increased travel times and more efficient fuel use; your "warp highways" if you will.

Speed also seems to increase when the interstellar medium / stellar density decreases somewhat, like on the outskirts of the galaxy or between the Milky Way and its satellite galaxies. Maybe going directly through the bulk of the Milky Way like Voyager did (because they had to scavenge for resources / travel shortcuts / allies along the way) cost them some extra travel time, but was the best option because they didn't have the fuel and stores stocked up for a journey up and outside of the denser parts of the galactic plane.

The alternative to this of course is STV with the Enterprise (and its BoP tag-along) reaching the Great Barrier towards the "center" of the galaxy in about ten minutes, which I contend is because "God" was a Cytherian (the giant floating head aliens from TNG 'The Nth Degree) criminal imprisoned on the Eden planet, which is why God needed a starship to escape his prison. He telepathically sent Sybok the means to boost a starship's warp efficiency (just as had happened with Barclay, albeit then through a probe, which may be their official way of making contact) and bring the ship to the center of the galaxy, and the Klingons cloaked and merged with the Enterprise's warp bubble to follow them.

Anyway, I'm all over the place here, but my point is essentially it's difficult for such a huge shared universe produced over decades to try and maintain rigidly consistent travel times and speeds and rules, and it was already slipping as soon as the first series started. If doing so places limits on the types of stories you want to tell, then the story should come first, and you can always come up with an explanation later, or don't. YMMV.

all true, Trek has been a bit loose on warp speeds and distance.
However, after Voyager, you can't just say, it'll take 75 years at max speed to cover 70,000 light years, and then say, 120,000 Ly expedition in a reasonable time.

I'll take, they discover a temporary wormhole or some other shortcut that would be open for lets say 5 years before it degrades, and she was part of an exploratory expedition through it. It may have been a small fleet, and she was in charge of a communications ship that layed out bouys and worked on the universal translator to talk with discovered species.

So something like:
From 2301 to 2305, UPON DISCOVERY OF A TEMPORARILY STABLE WORMHOLE Uhura and the Leondegrance carried out a five-year mission to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud, and participated in over one hundred first contact missions with the civilizations encountered there.

Like alot of things, add a few words to add to the explanation, makes it more plausible.

 

[Dukhat]

How could she lead a 4-5 year mission to the Lesser (Small?) Magellanic Cloud, some 199,000 light-years from Earth when it was going to take Voyager (with a sustainable cruise velocity of warp 9.975) 75 years to travel 70,000 light-years?

Because nothing on that plaque should be taken seriously, least of all that completely anachronistic ship design. It’s all a bunch of nonsense that wasn’t meant to be seen up close, like the hamsters on the Enterprise-D LCARS screens.

SISKO: If it's true, that would mean that this has been here for ten thousand years. Dax, we might have just discovered the first stable wormhole known to exist. Bring us about, Lieutenant.

And this quote by Sisko pretty much nullifies any idea that there might have been even a temporarily stable wormhole in the past, because he makes an absolute statement upon initially discovering the Bajoran wormhole. If that wasn’t the case, then he would have made it clear that this wormhole still might be only temporarily stable.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If everyone in the main cast can command a starship, it's no longer special:

STONE: Now, look, Jim. Not one man in a million could do what you and I have done. Command a starship. A hundred decisions a day, hundreds of lives staked on you making every one of them right.

MERIK: He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew.

Somewhere along the way, fans and even later showrunners seemed to think it was akin to being a bus driver.

While there's no stated or filmed reason why Uhura can't be a starship captain, neither did they demonstrate she was command material. Comics, fan films and fiction did that. And leading a landing party in a cartoon episode isn't running a starship. I can lead a team at work but can't seem me running the company.

Wasn't Stone himself in the Operations Division, serving as "Portmaster" of Starbase 11? Granted, he was stated as having commanded starships before that, but unless he switched divisions (which is entirely possible), doesn't that open up the possibility of people in the Operations Division (like Uhura or Scotty) also having --albeit more limited-- pathways to command?

Wasn't almost everyone assigned to the Enterprise considered exceptional in some way? Wasn't it one of if not the premiere ship assignments in the fleet, as were the Constitution Class ships in general? It stands to reason that the best and brightest of Starfleet would be assigned there, the people with the most opportunity for advancement.

Doesn't Stone's "Not one man in a million..." remark, which could refer to "mankind" as species but more likely literally referred to just men at the time, make it that much more important and significant to show a woman we know (unlike the woman captain in ST:IV) like Uhura achieving the captaincy of her own starship rather than another one of a thousand men who have been given a command?

It wasn't so much later showrunners that started the trend as it was the TOS movies by ranking everyone up until the ship(s) were full of multiple commanders and captains and an admiral/captain, which you kind of had to do to avoid Harry Kim Syndrome and given the years in service all the characters had at that point. Then Spock got a command, Chekov was on the command track as XO aboard Reliant, Sulu got a command. Chapel became an MD and Rand ranked up on Excelsior. Uhura getting a command of her own once her adopted family of Kirk had seemingly died, Scotty had retired and disappeared, and the Enterprise had been decommissioned doesn't seem inconsistent with all of that.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This thread has nothing to do with tos. Shouldn’t this be somewhere else?

sorry for the pedantic post, my ocd kicked in.

"Nothing" to do with TOS? I could have sworn Uhura was a character on that show. Even though this is info from a different series, it's about her.

 

[1001001]

Huh? Why would I hate Burnham? If its because shes a woman or black, you can go bite me.. I may not like the writing of having her the Absolute Center of attention and plot and her constant whispering, but thats minor stuff. I've watched all seasons and mostly enjoyed them.

Now for my comments on Uhura, is that they seem to have EVERYBODY want to become a captain of a ship. Not saying she couldn't, I just don't like that they make EVERYBODY one. Maybe she took some time off, have a family and children, after awhile maybe come back, We don't know. If they want to make her being a Captian cannon, go for it, its not my character, won't loose sleep. Just I hate the thing of Oh they have to have some type of tragedy in their life, or everybody has to gun to be a captain. It’s lazy writing.

“You can go bite me” is absolutely not allowed and you know it.

Anything like that in the future will get a formal warning.

 

[valkyrie013]

Apologies.

Because nothing on that plaque should be taken seriously, least of all that completely anachronistic ship design. It’s all a bunch of nonsense that wasn’t meant to be seen up close, like the hamsters on the Enterprise-D LCARS screens.



And this quote by Sisko pretty much nullifies any idea that there might have been even a temporarily stable wormhole in the past, because he makes an absolute statement upon initially discovering the Bajoran wormhole. If that wasn’t the case, then he would have made it clear that this wormhole still might be only temporarily stable.

Not really, Sisko also inferred that the wormhole was stable because of past sightings etc. that go back for hundreds/thousands of years, not just that he took a scan, and proclaimed it stable, he had proof going back.
A wormhole or other anomaly to the Cloud could have been a temporary one if it was scanned, and found stable, but degrading at a constant rate.
So, its found, scanned, found to be temporarily stable for X amount of time, Starfleet couldn't' pass up the opportunity to explore the cloud. Makes sense to me.

Many a book has been written to explain off hand remarks, or barely legible text. Fun exercise.

 

[Dukhat]

Not really, Sisko also inferred that the wormhole was stable because of past sightings etc. that go back for hundreds/thousands of years, not just that he took a scan, and proclaimed it stable, he had proof going back. A wormhole or other anomaly to the Cloud could have been a temporary one if it was scanned, and found stable, but degrading at a constant rate.
So, its found, scanned, found to be temporarily stable for X amount of time, Starfleet couldn't' pass up the opportunity to explore the cloud. Makes sense to me.

I don’t remember him doing any of that.

 

[valkyrie013]

I don’t remember him doing any of that.

DAX: It's not like any wormhole I've ever seen. There were none of the usual resonance waves.
SISKO: Could this be how the Orbs found their way into the Bajoran system?
DAX: Not an unreasonable hypothesis.
SISKO: If it's true, that would mean that this has been here for ten thousand years. Dax, we might have just discovered the first stable wormhole known to exist. Bring us about, Lieutenant.
(The wormhole reappears on demand)

Same quote from above, but it does show that Sisko inferred that if the Orbs were 1000's of years old, and likely came from this wormhole, that it has existed in that spot for those intervening years.
True that it could have been active for a bit, closed, then came back.
But Sisko's comment of the first stable wormhole maybe that is in the more "permanent" variety than a temporary one. Look at the Barzan wormhole, it was stable for awhile, until it became unstable.
From what has been said, natural wormholes tend to not hang around for long and disappear, either really quick, or exist, but the locations aren't stable for long.

Lets say, one was discovered, and after say a month of scans, tests, probes, etc. that they find it is stable, but not permanent. They would still make use of it. Even if there was a possibility that it would destabilize early. A chance to go to another galaxy that would otherwise take over 100 years to get to would be to great a thing to pass up.

But like I said, its not on the plaque, just me ruminating on how it could happen.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, the bottom line is this statement:

Sisko: Dax, we might have just discovered the first stable wormhole known to exist.

It's a pretty definitive statement, made immediately after Sisko and Dax discover the wormhole. He doesn't immediately assume that it's only temporarily stable even though he just literally discovered it only a few moments before. He basically says that no stable wormholes (temporary or not) had ever existed prior to this one.

And on the subject of 'temporarily stable wormholes'...just how would Starfleet know how long something like that would be useful? Do they have a gauge for knowing how long one would last? Would they have sacrificed a ship captained by one of the most decorated Starfleet officers ever, if suddenly the wormhole would close, leaving them trapped in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud forever?

 

[fireproof78]

Would they have sacrificed a ship captained by one of the most decorated Starfleet officers ever, if suddenly the wormhole would close, leaving them trapped in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud forever?

Yes.

 

[Dukhat]

Yes.

And you know this, how?

 

[fireproof78]

And you know this, how?

Ohhh...you wanted definitive knowledge. Then, I don't know. But, my gut instinct is yes, they would, if they thought there would be some benefit.

 

[Dukhat]

Ohhh...you wanted definitive knowledge.

Sorry, I figured that would be obvious.

Then, I don't know. But, my gut instinct is yes, they would, if they thought there would be some benefit.

Sending an automated probe would be far more logical and efficient than sending a manned ship.

 

[fireproof78]

Sending an automated probe would be far more logical and efficient than sending a manned ship.

On this point, I would generally agree. However, at least from a storytelling point of view, Starfleet tends to take some risks, necessary or not, for the sake of exploration and knowledge. As well as drama. I feel like it might have been more common in TOS, but that's potentially a fragmented memory.

 

[PCz911]

"Nothing" to do with TOS? I could have sworn Uhura was a character on that show. Even though this is info from a different series, it's about her.

To clarify my opinion, I would submit that as none of this “occurred” (mentioned or referenced in the tos run) or was created (and dare I say) part of canon during the tos seasons … and that it might rightly belong in a different category.

However, As a moderator I defer to your decision. Mea culpa

 

[Locutus of Bored]

To clarify my opinion, I would submit that as none of this “occurred” (mentioned or referenced in the tos run) or was created (and dare I say) part of canon during the tos seasons … and that it might rightly belong in a different category.

However, As a moderator I defer to your decision. Mea culpa

No worries, nothing to defer to. I'm not a moderator in this particular forum, just another poster giving his opinion. It's all good.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well, in The Price, Data and Laforge take a shuttle pod through the Barzam wormhole to prove it was stable. Could have easily sent a probe through, but they didn't. Almost cost them because they weren't where they thought they'd be, and almost didn't make it back ( Feringi didn't).

Plenty of instances of them taking risks where they could use a probe or other thing. entering the Space ameoba dead zone, Slingshot effect, to name a few ( I know, usually due to dramatic effect for a story) but ask Kirk said, Risk is part of the business, any ship could end up lost, or destroyed at any moment just from being out there.

There is some inherent risk in space exploration, ask any astronaut if they'd accept the risk, all would step up.

But don't get hung up on worm holes, plenty of other anomalies that could do the job.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, in The Price, Data and Laforge take a shuttle pod through the Barzam wormhole to prove it was stable. Could have easily sent a probe through, but they didn't. Almost cost them because they weren't where they thought they'd be, and almost didn't make it back ( Feringi didn't).

Which only reinforces my point about sending an unmanned probe.

Plenty of instances of them taking risks where they could use a probe or other thing. entering the Space ameoba dead zone, Slingshot effect, to name a few ( I know, usually due to dramatic effect for a story) but ask Kirk said, Risk is part of the business, any ship could end up lost, or destroyed at any moment just from being out there.

Taking risks for story drama is indeed a Trek staple. But I simply can't see Uhura being put in this position. It's not like Picard was in that shuttle that went through the Barzan wormhole.

But don't get hung up on worm holes, plenty of other anomalies that could do the job.

Then one would think that that relevant information would have been on the plaque.