Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"

Because the first one was banned and they didn't wanna risk it.

Which is why the episode was banned, but other movies were not.

That article explains the recent changes, which also removed Doom, Quake, and other games from the 'index'.

 

That 1.7% was for both genders, not just men.

Also that's not really how statistics work outside of completely random sampling.

 

It extended beyond the 90s. There was the superhero MMO "City of Heroes" which had a villain group called the fifth column which was very popular with the players because it was basically Nazis (and German players had provided the American devs with German translations for all the various ranks that the fifth column used); And again it was very popular because it was just a bunch of superheroes beating the shit out of Nazis. (This was circa 2003).

The company ran into trouble getting the MMO approved in Germany because of the fifth column villain group; and the way it was presented and named. To get the German approval they had to redo the group pretty much from the ground up; And it lost a lot of its popularity and a lot of players were upset because again many people found it cathartic to just go in there and kick the shit out of a bunch of Nazi NPCs.

 

I didn’t know what to make of last week’s episode. It’s the first episode of the entire run I didn’t rate. Some scenes / elements were a “3”. Others were a “9.” It was really odd.

This week was better. Very consistent and entertaining. I loved the twist with Osyraa’s motives and I really enjoyed her battle of wits with Vance. Loved Disco Die Hard. Really enjoyed Kenneth Mitchell’s character...and Stamets had a great role in this one,
particularly in his interactions with Burnham.
9/10


I think, with this context, I can settle on 7/10 for last week. It was good...but massively inconsistent. It reminded me a lot of the seed ship one, which was also kind of meh.

 

Can someone explain why all these people who hate this show soooooo much are still watching season 3 episode 12?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12047914/reviews

 

There is a Tide...
The Penultimate episode of the third season. With Discovery under her control, Osyraa goes into Federation headquarters as the crew try to get their ship back. The plots are split between various crewmembers efforts and Osyraa's ploting. There is nothing about what is ocurring in the nebula, although that does play a role in Stamets' angst. The bridge crew are stuck in the ready room, but does Tilly succeed as a leader? More on that below. But first, Book and Burnham's race to get back to Federation headquarters was done very well.
The race for him to crash land in Discovery's Shuttle Bay was appropriately gripping. Then there is Vance and his officers trying to figure out what was going on. Sure, it does take a while for him to figure out that Osyraa is on Discovery, but not too long. Osyraa's plan was well thought out, although her being flat-footed by Vance sticking to the Federation's ideals by insisting that she will stand trial was a surprise. I would have thought she would have considered that it would come up at some point.
Just a small niggle. However Burnham's escapades in trying to take back the ship were done very well. Sure, loosing her boots was a reference to Die Hard (but McClane doesn't loose them in any of the next three movies), but I'm sure it wasn't necessary. Her confronting Stamets was rather good though. Stamets was being selfish in wanting to go back to the nebula before Osyraa is dealt with. Of course there will be consequences to what Burnham did to him, but that may not be covered in the next episode.
Osyraa trying to stop Discovery falling back into the crew's hands was done well too. (Poor Rin...) Tilly's planning was done well too. She did suceed as a leader in this situation. The Sphere Data (or is it Zora now?) in the DOT23s was a good touch. (Didn't remind me of WALL-E, Star Wars or Silent Running) too much. Would have liked more taking back of this ship in this episode, but what did happen was rather good. Maybe Osyraa could have tried to hold Vance hostage when he said she was stand trial?
But it was the second episode in a three episode sequence. Let's see what the finale will bring. 8.35/10.

 

Another big disappointment is the near-complete lack of world building the series has done this year. Vance and Osyraa said some really interesting things regarding the status of the Federation and the Emerald Chain in their negotiation that I wish we could have seen.

Osyraa talks about how one of the deep space stations has been trading with the Chain for a while now; Vance mentions no one from Starfleet has visited it for over seventy years. There's something very juicy to explore there, IMO. What if there are these splintered parts of Starfleet that actually have a good relationship with the Chain and that creates a very awkward situation for Vance and Federation HQ who don't seem to have a good relationship? Why couldn't Discovery, with its spore drive, be sent out to re-establish communication with these cut off sectors of Starfleet? Imagine them coming back to Vance to report what's going on out there. It not only gets the crew up to speed, but, the viewers, too.

It's like they haven't fully assessed the widespread damage caused by this disaster.

 

They DID explore that in the very first episode - Burnham comes in contact with a Starbase run by the son of two Starfleet officers, who have passed. He grew up being schooled and trained by them in the hope that one day, the Starbase would be contacted by, and rejoin the Federation - which he isn't sure even exists. Burnham is the first Starfleet officer besides his parents that he's ever seen in person or interacted with - and he asks and she even grants him an official Starfleet officer commission.

Well, there's the after effects of "The Burn" as well as a Galaxy wide shortage of Dilithium (that was occuring centuries prior to the Burn.

We've been to 32nd century Earth and 32nd century Trill (along with a new Trill/Human character introduced.

We also found out Romulan/Vulcan reunification HAPPENED - to the point the Vulcans even renamed their Homeworld as a result.

We've had multiple examples of how the EC operates through Book as a Courier; plus seeing what they do when a Colony the EC assisted doesn't immediately toe the line. Plus we know the ONLY reason the EC is so gung ho to suddenly negotiate with the Federation is that the EC supply of Dilitium across their controlled territories is dwindling further and affecting their ability to project power and expand their territory.

Given they now only have 13 episodes this season, they've included quite a bit of world building where they can. (IMO)

 

Yes. I've seen the episode. Thank you.

Yet ships seem to have no problem getting around, regardless.

Again, yes. I've seen the episodes.

I'm well aware of what the series has shown us. That's not what I'm disputing. It's what they haven't shown us or developed further that can make the material more interesting, hence my original post. A lot is revealed in that negotiation scene about both sides that only raises more questions that wouldn't have to be asked if the world had been properly developed beyond what we are only given fleeting glances of.

Discovery, itself, can be a conduit to better develop and reveal what's going on out there and be used to give Starfleet a better idea of the full status of the Federation and, as I said, re-establish contact with those swaths that are cut off.

 

Indeed they went pretty much Andromeda with this season, saying that there is a dangerous and complex galaxy outside but hardly showing it. I hope it doesn’t go the full way, with the federation just reestablished unremarkable in an episode or two.

 

They did a pretty good job establishing why there's no point in going places before they can make sure there won't be another Burn.

The conclusion of S3 won't make the first Burn go away. But is the dilithium planet going to end up in Federation hands? If so, there may be some hope for reestablishing the Federation in S4, and going places with the spore drive will start making sense then, to trailblaze the reestablishing.

Timo Salonniemi

 

I think the point of this season was to establish (vaguely) the lay of the land and then the conflict between the Federation Remnant and the Emerald Chain. With that coming to a head in the finale, that frees us up for next season to explore more thoroughly, including all the cultures they are holding close to the vest (Klingons primarily, but also TNG era races of interest like Borg or Dominion possibly).

An opening plot thread was an exploration of utilizing Dark Matter to navigate the mycelial network... somehow. They'll probably fix the Su'Kal situation next, but that won't reverse the Burn. If Tilly and/or Stamets figures out how to create the spore drive without him, they could start transmitting the schematics across the galaxy. Restoring the Federation via the introduction of this revolutionary new technology seems a good direction for next season. And then, inevitably, they run across a force or foe who don't like what they are doing.

 

Exactly so. The whole point of resolving the Burn cause was to get Starfleet to go from a purely protectionist stance, barely maintaining, to being willing to send more ships out and explore. Starfleet clearly felt such exploration or management of resources was completely untenable at this point of knowledge around the Burn.

 

I'm going to re-watch this episode and the last one immediately before "That Hope Is You, Part 2". I feel like all three of these episodes need to be watched as one entity. Someone was asking during the Zoom Session, "What did you think of the episode?", I said "I think it's the middle part of three acts."

Then I'll give a proper review of them and rate all three at the same time. I don't know if I'll rate each one individually or all three as a collective whole. It depends on how it flows.

 

Not to sound cynical or dismissive of your reply (and I truly hope this is, in fact, something they do), I'm not expecting it because I don't think they've yet demonstrated the ability to remain focused on developing something thoroughly on this series. The idea of it sounds exciting, but, this season has shown they seem more interested in juggling multiple, unrelated, storylines whose amount of screen time gets in the way of really developing something. I just feel like the show is unwilling to put in the work necessary to fully flesh out an idea that they take shortcuts to the end.

 

I'm really growing weary of every season being "Galaxy in jeopardy" stories. Next year, they should just do a series of 1-2 part shows visiting various worlds and working on stringing the Fed back together. Jump out to that remote starbase trading post. Visit a world or two from old Treks to see how they've changed. Let us see some of the stuff that happened in the intervening 700 years, maybe even some temporal war holdover stuff. I'd find that completely interesting.

 

Galaxy is in jeopardy and it all rests on Michael's shoulders.

Even then, I don't even know what jeopardy we're in right now. Vance told Osyraa she'd be brought to justice and she promised him the same and stormed out.

Ok? Now what? Is the Emerald Chain coming to blow up HQ?

 

I look forward to this if it happens to be so.

I am hoping for an interesting conflict between the two powers.

 

It would be interesting. Imagine if there's an opposing power who doesn't like the idea of this technology for a variety of logical reasons (potential harm to the mycelial network, introducing a near-instantaneous travel could have disastrous effects on space warfare), and perhaps prefers the status quo. It believes the Federation, by trying to build up its forces again and having access to this technology, is a serious threat to the future of the galaxy and the tight-nit societies it has forged.

Heck, Osyraa bought up Deep Space 253 and its dealings with the Emerald Chain. What if this opposing power *is* also Federation, just a fragment that is incredibly weary of these downtimers and Vance's "headquarters" group. We don't need Space Nazis every season. Maybe a little bit of a "who's right, who's wrong" going on. Maybe our heroes even switch sides at some point. Or maybe half of them do.