Temporal mechanics man, she's creating another new timeline.........
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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This is the first time we've seen an alternate timeline created in the Mirror Universe. I wonder if this is now the one that will line up with TOS in 2267 and with DS9 in 2370 and beyond or if it will be changed again before the crossovers with those series happen.
Makes my head hurt---so I'll just ignore all the what ifs
That would entail in a stretch that TOS and DSC's Prime Universe are indeed in different timelines since events in both would no longer line up when compared with the Mirror Universe but...okay, now my head's hurting, too. 
This is the big reason Eeevil Georgiou has rubbed me the wrong way. In TOS, the MU is pretty camp, but it’s just the backdrop for a great examination of a very nuanced character, MU Spock. I’m happy to see Discovery move Georgiou in that direction.
I wondered if the gatekeeper’s costume was a reference to the suited and bowler-hatted Time Lord who visited the Doctor in Terror of the Autons. His not-so-comfy chair in the middle of nowhere also reminded me of the White Guardian who sends the Doctor on the quest for the Key to Time.
Like you, this might be my favorite episode this season. This and the Adira intro.
She has to make it at the very least realign with what we saw in TOS.
Otherwise she won't be fixing it enough to bring it back to a close enough alignment for her to function/survive in the 32nd century when she goes back.
This could be the visual setup to connect with TOS in nine years, or at least hints of that change.
I don't see why it would.
Prime Spock gave Kelvin universe Scotty the formula for TW beaming (which is suspiciously absent from the 32nd century).
Scanning the Narada would have provided the 23rd century Federation with a good idea for much better technology probably... but I don't see why this would be indicative of them getting different uniforms (furthermore, uniforms might not be contained to a singular style... for all we know, the 2379 Kelvin timeline SF officers use a specific style of uniform per starship (though its also very possible they use different styles onboard a single ship even - but those would likely be in the minority).
I think its possible that certain things would remain the same between the Prime and Kelvin universes... with other more obvious differences.
This was a pretty good episode. Will be interesting to see how the next one turns out.
:-)
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At the beginning of the episode, Kovich directly said that Georgiou could go back in time, or back to her home universe. My guess is that the Guardian dude is letting her see that she can't go home again, and then will offer her the ability to go back to the 23rd century again by the conclusion of Part 2, setting up for Section 31.
I suppose it's possible that there's some bullshit technobable cure coming to her at the last minute. But that would be a big narrative letdown, because the narrative literally said there was no cure available for her. I think it's more likely that Georgiou finds some way to leave a "final message" to Michael which she gets to see at the end of Part 2 (or later).
Yes, this is so much better than the friggin Emerald Chain - which we are assured to have to deal with for at least one of the final three episodes.
That sounds a lot worse than 5.
I haven't seen it yet but I am fuming that a show that boasts about its diversity so much spends a load of time on the kinky/bi = evil universe
Personally, I really liked Carl. He reminded me of the Ascended Beings in the Stargate episode "Threads" where they are reading the newspaper with events from the galaxy. If Carl were just some higher order being, I'd be fine with that. He seems like a very interesting character. I quite liked the whole scene with Carl and the door. And other than the hint in the newspaper, there was nothing to suggest Carl is the Guardian of Forever. Maybe Part 2 will make it more explicit like showing Carl morph into the Arch we are familiar with. I hope not. I would prefer it if Carl were just another mysterious higher order being that we've never met before. Saying that Trek is ruined forever would be an overreaction but I do think that it is super dumb if Discovery makes Carl into the TOS Guardian.
As far as the rest of the episode is concerned, I don't care much for the Mirror Universe in Discovery. The problem I have is that Discovery makes the Mirror character too one dimensional. Yes, I get that the Mirror Universe is sadistic, treacherous and evil but Discovery writers just play the same note over and over again. This entire episode was just the MU characters shouting that they are evil and will stab everybody in the back non stop. It gets repetitive and boring.
Clearly, the writers feel that MU Georgiou and Prime Michael is a story arc that needs to be resolved and apparently this two parter is a back door pilot to the S31 show. But I am more interested in the origin of the Burn arc and new Starfleet. So I see it as a distraction to what I really want to watch.
I also wish Discovery had used a better villain than the Emerald Chain. I am guessing we will see a big space battle that will show how powerful they are but so far, they have not been a very menacing threat IMO. I think a military Pact between Romulans (who refused to join Ni'Var), Breen, Klingons, for example, would have made a more menacing threat to Starfleet.
As far as the rest of the episode is concerned, I don't care much for the Mirror Universe in Discovery. The problem I have is that Discovery makes the Mirror character too one dimensional. Yes, I get that the Mirror Universe is sadistic, treacherous and evil but Discovery writers just play the same note over and over again. This entire episode was just the MU characters shouting that they are evil and will stab everybody in the back non stop. It gets repetitive and boring.
Clearly, the writers feel that MU Georgiou and Prime Michael is a story arc that needs to be resolved and apparently this two parter is a back door pilot to the S31 show. But I am more interested in the origin of the Burn arc and new Starfleet. So I see it as a distraction to what I really want to watch.
I also wish Discovery had used a better villain than the Emerald Chain. I am guessing we will see a big space battle that will show how powerful they are but so far, they have not been a very menacing threat IMO. I think a military Pact between Romulans (who refused to join Ni'Var), Breen, Klingons, for example, would have made a more menacing threat to Starfleet.
The sense I'm starting to get is that the end of the season will reveal what caused The Burn, and then aftermath/repercussions of that reveal will be dealt with in the fourth season.
It seems to me like this is really a bridge season. The first five episodes seemed like a transition to the new setting, from Burnham's arrival to Discovery finally reaching the new Starfleet Command. Then the next five episodes (up to and including the next one) are about adjusting to said transition. Burnham doesn't work out as First Officer so Tilly steps up, Saru is figuring out his Catch Phrase and still learning how to be a Captain (when to flex, when not to flex, etc.), Discovery has its first run-in with the Emerald Chain, Book wants to stay on Discovery with Burnham, Detmer gets her groove back, Adira tells Stamets how they identify, and Georgiou grapples with learning how to trust others for help and she has to deal with the transition to DSC's new setting not just mentally but also physically.
If you ask me, I'd rather that they have this than zip through it. At this point, it's safe to say DSC's not going to have a short run. It's already in its third season, it's been renewed for a fourth, and I doubt it'll be the last. They've reached a point where they can play the longer game. It doesn't all have to be concluded at the end of the season. It just needs to reach a good stopping point until it picks up again.
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The mirror universe was once an interesting take on our heroes as what might happen if a few little things were different and that snowballed into something major. As DS9 tackled this, it went back to the well too many times. Doing this on Disco was interesting, but it, unfortunately, made Lorca, a complex character with potential to be one of the greatest in Star Trek into a moustache-twirling villain before unceremoniously throwing him into a star.
"Terra Firma, Part 1." Oy. I like the journey Phillipa's been on this season. Its actually been pretty interesting, and I appreciate that while this season has been more episode-driven as opposed to the major overarching plots of seasons 1 and 2. And also having a focus on character, as I've said a lot through this season, is Disco's strength. I'm kinda over the mirror universe. And I really hoped that jumping 900 years into the future was going to be the end of it. However, as always, I try to stay positive and engaged as I watch. I appreciate the character journey and as we've seen so much of Phillipa's story since crossing over, its hard to show more of that, so we don't have a lot of options since that's what they're doing. If a Georgiou-led Section 31 series is in the mix, I suppose it ultimately makes sense for them to do this approach of her going back and taking the lessons she learned from the past few years in the Prime universe into her real universe. While she's intriguing and season 3 has been a big turn in that direction, Phillipa has not been a likable character that one can root for in leading a series, instead doing a lot of scenery-chewing. That can be fun. But its not always sympathetic. I can't make a judgment really on her arc in this story until I see the end of it, and I am curious as to where it goes, even if I wish they found a different way of doing it than going back to the Mirror Universe.
As for Rob Burnett's musings on making The Guardian of Forever into a flesh and being human? As others have said, first, I don't care what he says and how that might ruin Star Trek. After Axanar, his opinion means little to me. Second, this may be a Guardian of Forever, but it (because of distance) is probably not the Guardian of Forever we say in COTEOF. So, this concept of destroying all of canon is just ridiculous, at least at this point. There's nothing to say that these Guardians can appear in different forms. This is why I am not fond of some fans' overreliance on canon. They can't see the forest from the trees in allowing different things to happen for the story. The writers have a reason for doing what they're doing and perhaps its to curtail anything directly having to do with Ellison's story. Or perhaps its something totally different that we've yet to see.
I really liked Admiral Vance in this episode. Between he and Cornwell, Disco's done a good job of making the leadership of Starfleet a lot more interesting and nuanced. (I could say the same thing about Admiral "Sheer Fucking Hubris" Clancy.) I also, as always, liked the bits with our Disco crew. I appreciate how far Phillipa and Saru have come since they first met. The Stamets/Adira stuff continues to shine. And I'm liking how well Tilly is settling in to her XO position.
I can't give a rating to this episode as its incomplete. So I defer to next week's to rate it as a whole.
With an appearance by Landry though, I do hope we see a Jason Isaac/Lorca appearance next week. And I still want to know what happened to Prime Lorca! But that may be for another time.
"Terra Firma, Part 1." Oy. I like the journey Phillipa's been on this season. Its actually been pretty interesting, and I appreciate that while this season has been more episode-driven as opposed to the major overarching plots of seasons 1 and 2. And also having a focus on character, as I've said a lot through this season, is Disco's strength. I'm kinda over the mirror universe. And I really hoped that jumping 900 years into the future was going to be the end of it. However, as always, I try to stay positive and engaged as I watch. I appreciate the character journey and as we've seen so much of Phillipa's story since crossing over, its hard to show more of that, so we don't have a lot of options since that's what they're doing. If a Georgiou-led Section 31 series is in the mix, I suppose it ultimately makes sense for them to do this approach of her going back and taking the lessons she learned from the past few years in the Prime universe into her real universe. While she's intriguing and season 3 has been a big turn in that direction, Phillipa has not been a likable character that one can root for in leading a series, instead doing a lot of scenery-chewing. That can be fun. But its not always sympathetic. I can't make a judgment really on her arc in this story until I see the end of it, and I am curious as to where it goes, even if I wish they found a different way of doing it than going back to the Mirror Universe.
As for Rob Burnett's musings on making The Guardian of Forever into a flesh and being human? As others have said, first, I don't care what he says and how that might ruin Star Trek. After Axanar, his opinion means little to me. Second, this may be a Guardian of Forever, but it (because of distance) is probably not the Guardian of Forever we say in COTEOF. So, this concept of destroying all of canon is just ridiculous, at least at this point. There's nothing to say that these Guardians can appear in different forms. This is why I am not fond of some fans' overreliance on canon. They can't see the forest from the trees in allowing different things to happen for the story. The writers have a reason for doing what they're doing and perhaps its to curtail anything directly having to do with Ellison's story. Or perhaps its something totally different that we've yet to see.
I really liked Admiral Vance in this episode. Between he and Cornwell, Disco's done a good job of making the leadership of Starfleet a lot more interesting and nuanced. (I could say the same thing about Admiral "Sheer Fucking Hubris" Clancy.) I also, as always, liked the bits with our Disco crew. I appreciate how far Phillipa and Saru have come since they first met. The Stamets/Adira stuff continues to shine. And I'm liking how well Tilly is settling in to her XO position.
I can't give a rating to this episode as its incomplete. So I defer to next week's to rate it as a whole.
With an appearance by Landry though, I do hope we see a Jason Isaac/Lorca appearance next week. And I still want to know what happened to Prime Lorca! But that may be for another time.
An aside, but I wonder how they filmed the scenes for MU Michael, with such a different haircut?
Yes, I know the braids are not her real hair. But it looked to me like there wasn't enough length on the sides/back to keep the braids tied in. Which suggests to me they may have filmed them at the end of the season, rather than in chronological order.
Yes, I know the braids are not her real hair. But it looked to me like there wasn't enough length on the sides/back to keep the braids tied in. Which suggests to me they may have filmed them at the end of the season, rather than in chronological order.
Makeup, bald caps and wigs are amazing things. Her hair seemed a little off in comparison to season 1.
I had thought this might be Georgiou's exit, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe it will be, but I don't think the show could resist the big-tears farewell. Maybe it will be like you suggest -- some sort of message. But that would feel kinda abrupt, I think, and it's hard to imagine that offering really satisfying closure from a storytelling standpoint.
After building up Georgiou's motherly relationship with Burnham, the show needs a really compelling reason for why they would part, so I'm guessing Georgiou doesn't get cured. But I won't be surprised if she doesn't return to the PU before her big goodbye (if that's even still in the cards).
I agree that its not necessarily set up great for the Michael/Phillipa goodbye, but there's no reason that there won't be space for that in Part 2 if that's the direction they're going (and I believe it is). Might be Phillipa's last wish before going back to the 23rd century to see Michael one last time.
By that convoluted logic:
The Burn was Sarek's fault - for getting Burnham into Star Fleet
The Burn was Zephram Cochrane's fault for inventing Warp Drive (for Earth)
The Burn was Kirk's fault for saving Edith Keeler
The Burn was Q's fault for whatever Q does.
The Burn was [insert ST Character]'s fault for [insert something they did]
You're right. I would have given it lower than a 5, but the show still looks good and the bits not in the Mirror Universe (the first half) were quite OK.
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