Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x08 - "The Sanctuary"

[jackoverfull]

Straight action episode with little surprises but a lot of little developments...8- for me.

We get to see Ousira and she’s unremarkable, she also has the most obvious secret ever. Oh well.

In a couple of episodes we head to the calypso nebula to find time traveling discovery (or is it Mirror?).

Liked the Burnham/Book interactions, all the Adira parts and I love that this season are giving more to do to the little guys and doing a bit less frenetic space scenes. And the seasick-inducing camera seems a thing of the past...nice!

Georgiou is over the top even for her here and I don’t buy the mutating face thing...

The “magic” emphaty thing really raises more question than anything. Why in a century nobody tried it? Why only the two of them have it? Are the locusts coming out a natural thing or Oisira caused it?

The “rogue officer” idea makes no sense and indeed nobody really seem to believe it.

Agreed that the Orions really don’t look well.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Lou Ferrigno...the 1970's Orion Syndicate heavy...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

That's because they probably are literally plastic: https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/janet-kidder-star-trek-discovery-osyraa-villain-green-skin

Kidder adds that unlike some of the Orions of the past — like Susan Oliver or Yvonne Craig in TOS, or Rachel Nichols in Star Trek 2009 — this isn't just green body paint. "That's a full prosthetic head," Kidder says. "It takes about four hours to put on!"

No wonder Osyraa looks so different between scenes. They were probably figuring things out. Maybe they wanted to spare actually painting the actress, but if it takes 4 hours to put it on that's not really an improvement. Kidder's natural beauty isn't coming across through that prosthetic head, and Orions are supposed to be very alluring.

I don't get how this is an improvement to body makeup/paint. It doesn't look natural at all.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Another casualty of having to cram an entire year's overarching story into 10 to 15 episodes. No time for anything else.

Laddie, if something's important you make the time.

The number of episodes is arbitrary. It's simply a matter of efficiency and efficacy of the writing. Other shows share a similar number of per-season episodes and have no problem dedicating whole episodes to side characters. Heck a lot of anime does whole episodes for secondary or even tertiary characters, and most of those are 11-13 episodes 20 minutes each. Flash fiction can tell whole stories with compelling characters in what equates to about two or three Tweets.

Better, more conceptually focused writing could get it done. And for the cost of an average Discovery or Picard episode, there's no excuse.

 

[Yistaan]

The “magic” emphaty thing really raises more question than anything. Why in a century nobody tried it? Why only the two of them have it? Are the locusts coming out a natural thing or Oisira caused it?

Even the empathy thing needed the help of a capital starship. I don't think any was around other than Osyraa's, and she's not going to provide that aid. She's not even giving the planet replicators so they aren't reliant on natural food.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Did they seriously think Osyraa wouldn't notice Book's ship leaving their shuttlebay?

No, they were fully aware that Osyraa would know that the ship had come from Discovery's shuttlebay, and incorporated that into their cover story.

When debriefed by Starfleet, they would blame the attack on a rogue pilot (Detmer in this case) borrowing a non-Starfleet ship in their hold to make an unsanctioned attack on the Emerald Chain vessel, an action for which the pilot would be severely disciplined. Or as such unsanctioned rogue missions are known on Discovery, "a day ending in Y" or "Burnham Specials".

Now, the likelihood of Osyraa accepting this explanation are slim to none, but I'm guessing weakened or not, full-scale war with the Federation Remnant is still going to be incredibly costly, so this explanation at least gives her the means to save face with her lieutenants and not show weakness in avoiding war and allows Starfleet to have plausible deniability as well.

Whether that tenuous "peace" lasts or not remains to be seen (probably not).

 

[137th Gebirg]

For some reason with the exception of Romulans/Vulcans, Kurtzman Trek just loves to put everyone in a full-face silicone mask, rather than individual "bits" as is needed.

This is taking it to an absurd conclusion, as there was nothing on her face even outside the norm of human variation. I actually wonder if part of the reason she came across as so flat is because she couldn't emote properly through the mask. You need a top-notch actor like Doug Jones to pull it off.

The irony here is that Disco’s makeup team has been headed up by Glenn Hetrick and Neville Page, of SciFi’s Face Off. They were both renowned for giving their show’s contestants endless rafts of shit for doing “full mask” makeups unnecessarily when doing smaller appliance prosthetics were almost always preferred. Ever since S1’s Klingons, they have completely gone against their philosophy of “less is more”. I suppose they can be excused for the Klingon debacle, as that was Fuller doing his thing before he was fired (basically, this practice has gone on from the beginning - Kurtzman only perpetuated it, sadly) but every other makeup since then should have been “less is more”. I wasn’t aware until now that the Orion prosthetics are full-masks. That explains why they look so crappy. And I agree, Enterprise definitely did it the best.

 

[Discofan]

Politics...

 

[Yistaan]

Ever since S1’s Klingons, they have completely gone against their philosophy of “less is more”. I suppose they can be excused for the Klingon debacle, as that was Fuller doing his thing before he was fired (basically, this practice has gone on from the beginning - Kurtzman only perpetuated it, sadly) but every other makeup since then should have been “less is more”. I wasn’t aware until now that the Orion prosthetics are full-masks. That explains why they look so crappy. And I agree, Enterprise definitely did it the best.

I always assumed the Klingon thing was so that the Ash/Voq secret wouldn't be more obvious than it already was. I have no idea what the justification is for turning Orion makeup into full fledged prosthetic heads is though.

 

[Amasov]

I'm getting exhausted by how modern television is structured. The constant drip-feed of plot rather than actual progression each episode.

Last week, got the SB-12 data, wait a week to see what it reveals, wait another week to see what the reveal reveals, repeat ad infinitum. It feels like we aren't getting proper cliffhangers where they should logically go. This episode would have ended much better if we got a "sir... the distress signal... its from Discovery!" stinger at the end rather than the soft endings we keep getting over and over again.

I think this is a great way of putting it.

We got nowhere this week and I'm really frustrated. I truly thought that the scene with Adira, Stamets, and Culber was going to end with a cliffhanger by having the algorithm reveal something.

On at least two occasions now, I feel like the show has wasted whole episodes with meaningless, uninteresting plotlines that don't even relate to the larger mystery at hand. It would be an entirely different conversation if I found these stories to be interesting, but, I just don't. I really don't care about Book's planet and don't feel particularly threatened by the Emerald Chain as an adversary. They've just been set up as the bad guys, but, honestly, who are they? What is their goal? This is the third time now where they have been overcome by our heroes. So far, they have not proved to be a particularly powerful adversary. Why am I to be afraid of them?

Overall, I just didn't like this episode one bit.

 

[Yistaan]

don't feel particularly threatened by the Emerald Chain as an adversary. They've just been set up as the bad guys, but, honestly, who are they? What is their goal? This is the third time now where they have been overcome by our heroes. So far, they have not proved to be a particularly powerful adversary. Why am I to be afraid of them?

I found the slave camp they ran a few episodes back scary enough, complete with hacking off Ryn's body parts etc. I don't think they can go darker than that (brutally mutilating Book or something) while still realistically being a mainstream show. Even Star Wars' Revenge of the Sith barely got away with the graphic scenes with Anakin at the end.

 

[tomalak301]

There were things I liked and a big thing I didn't like about this episode:

I'll get to the thing I didn't like about this episode first, and that was similar to the episode where Book and Burnham are going to that planet and find Ryn and try to escape. I can't get on board with this Emerald Chain storyline, mainly because it's not really jumping out at me. Maybe it's just not personal enough (And we barely know Book to say he counts as being personal) but I just found the stuff on the planet kind of unremarkable. I was also confused about the scene where they are chanting and the glowy things are surrounding them with Discovery having their beam on it. Can someone explain that scene? Maybe it was an editing thing but they went from the Planet being attacked and bombarded with fire to Burnham all of a sudden back on Discovery and setting an escape plan for the blue flies. I wasn't really sure what was happening there.

Now the things I liked, and that was basically everything else. Detmer got some great screen time, and I wanted to see more of her fancy flying because it was awesome. I also love how adorable Adira, Stamets, and Culber are. In the hopes that I don't come across as transphobic (Because that is not my intent), I am still a little weirded out by the whole they/them pronouns being used to refer to a singular person. Now It's somewhat easier here because Adira has many people inside them, but I look at Adira and my mind thinks girl. In that way I appreciated the two pronoun scenes in this episode a lot. The first one was short and to the point, but the scene with Culber, Adira, and Stamets was great for one reason. It allowed me to be exposed to the repeated use of the "They/Them" pronoun and I really do feel that the more I am exposed to it, the better my mind will be trained to be used to it. I had hoped when the news was announced they were casting a non-binary character that this would be more than just a virtue signal ploy and I have to say I have been very much impressed so far. Also, I really do hope we get an episode where Stamets sings. Seeing him at the Piano I was reminded of Anthony Rapp in Rent (I never saw the play so I'm referring to the movie).

Another thing I liked was the Georgiou storyline, but not because of her, but because of the character arc Culber is having this year with that sly attitude that I'm finding really endearing. I just love that we are past his death and resurrection and we are seeing Wilson Cruz actually portray a Doctor. This is what I've wanted between Season 2 and 3 and so far I'm loving every minute of the character.

Last week I gave the episode an 8, but then I rewatched it and thought I was too generous. I think this week I'm giving this episode a 7. The stuff directly dealing with the Chain and Burnham and Book's relationship I can take or leave, everything else I was entertained by.

 

[fireproof78]

I found the slave camp they ran a few episodes back scary enough, complete with hacking off Ryn's body parts etc. I don't think they can go darker than that (brutally mutilating Book or something) while still realistically being a mainstream show. Even Star Wars' Revenge of the Sith barely got away with the graphic scenes with Anakin at the end.

Yeah, they definitely feel dangerous enough.

 

[SJGardner]

No, they were fully aware that Osyraa would know that the ship had come from Discovery's shuttlebay, and incorporated that into their cover story.

When debriefed by Starfleet, they would blame the attack on a rogue pilot (Detmer in this case) borrowing a non-Starfleet ship in their hold to make an unsanctioned attack on the Emerald Chain vessel, an action for which the pilot would be severely disciplined. Or as such unsanctioned rogue missions are known on Discovery, "a day ending in Y" or "Burnham Specials".

Now, the likelihood of Osyraa accepting this explanation are slim to none, but I'm guessing weakened or not, full-scale war with the Federation Remnant is still going to be incredibly costly, so this explanation at least gives her the means to save face with her lieutenants and not show weakness in avoiding war and allows Starfleet to have plausible deniability as well.

Whether that tenuous "peace" lasts or not remains to be seen (probably not).

That settles it, I'm never watching an episode on an empty stomach again. I'm not convinced that Osyraa would accept the explanation either, but yeah, I should've placed my bets on her not actually wanting a direct confrontation, especially with Ryn confirming the Chain's dilithium supplies are running low, which is surely going to be a big trump card in Starfleet's hands. Thinking back again, she actually seems much like a bully with this in mind, who's been able to get away with so much because the Federation retreated and stayed out of her way. But who knows what would happen if they actually decided to fight back. After all, Book's ship was able to send her running with her weapons disabled all by itself, so she might not be as powerful as she seems at first glance.

 

[Yistaan]

Book's ship was able to send her running with her weapons disabled all by itself, so she might not be as powerful as she seems at first glance.

Ryn knew vulnerabilities in the Viridian though. The same way Picard knew a Borg cube's vulnerabilities in First Contact, or Lursa and B'Etor were able to destroy the Enterprise NCC-1701-D in Generations after finding its shield frequency.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I don't think it's that the Emerald Chain is that powerful, I think it's more that they've managed to take advantage of the planets that have been weakened by the loss of the Federation.

I don't get how this is an improvement to body makeup/paint. It doesn't look natural at all.

Prosthetic might be easier on the actors, and quicker to take off. I know some people can have a bad reaction to the body paint. The actress who played Zhaan on Farscape left the show because the blue makeup she wore was making her sick, and actually starting to screw up her kidneys (I think it was her kidneys).
As for the episode, I gave this one an 8.
Visting Book's homeworld gave us some nice development for him.
After the set up we got last week it was nice get to see Osyraa, the Emerald Chain's leader.
The stuff with Detmer and Rin on Book's ship was pretty good. His reaction to Grudge was hilarious.
I was happy they finally addressed Adira being non-binary.

 

[NCC-73515]

Somehow, Enterprise has done the best Orion makeup.

And Andorian and Tellarite!

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I knew something was weird about the Orion makeup and it being a full mask explains why there is something unnatural about them like the facial movements are so close to normal but the back of my brain is telling me something is wrong.
And the male one reminds me of this guy the way he moves

 

[fireproof78]

Prosthetic might be easier on the actors, and quicker to take off. I know some people can have a bad reaction to the body paint. The actress who played Zhaan on Farscape left the show because the blue makeup she wore was making her sick, and actually starting to screw up her kidneys (I think it was her kidneys).

I wonder if it might be quicker to do so, as well as easier on the actors. I didn't realize that about Zhann. That sounds awful.

 

[Fateor]

That's because they probably are literally plastic: https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/janet-kidder-star-trek-discovery-osyraa-villain-green-skin

Kidder adds that unlike some of the Orions of the past — like Susan Oliver or Yvonne Craig in TOS, or Rachel Nichols in Star Trek 2009 — this isn't just green body paint. "That's a full prosthetic head," Kidder says. "It takes about four hours to put on!"

No wonder Osyraa looks so different between scenes. They were probably figuring things out. Maybe they wanted to spare actually painting the actress, but if it takes 4 hours to put it on that's not really an improvement. Kidder's natural beauty isn't coming across through that prosthetic head, and Orions are supposed to be very alluring.

Well... That explains why the makeup looked so bad...

And on a note, it takes like 20 minutes to airbrush an actor/actress green.

The irony here is that Disco’s makeup team has been headed up by Glenn Hetrick and Neville Page, of SciFi’s Face Off. They were both renowned for giving their show’s contestants endless rafts of shit for doing “full mask” makeups unnecessarily when doing smaller appliance prosthetics were almost always preferred. Ever since S1’s Klingons, they have completely gone against their philosophy of “less is more”. I suppose they can be excused for the Klingon debacle, as that was Fuller doing his thing before he was fired (basically, this practice has gone on from the beginning - Kurtzman only perpetuated it, sadly) but every other makeup since then should have been “less is more”. I wasn’t aware until now that the Orion prosthetics are full-masks. That explains why they look so crappy. And I agree, Enterprise definitely did it the best.

Yup, if this was Face/Off and the contestants had put forward makeup as bad as the Orion's this episode, Glenn and Neville would have laughed them off the stage.