Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x08 - "The Sanctuary"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 2, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    7.7%
  2. 9

    14.8%
  3. 8

    26.0%
  4. 7

    26.0%
  5. 6

    13.0%
  6. 5

    5.3%
  7. 4

    3.0%
  8. 3

    1.8%
  9. 2

    0.6%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    1.8%
  1. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Speaking of on-location filming....did anyone else notice that map they were looking at while still on Discovery was very clearly a map of Iceland, only with the water turned reddish-pink?
     
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  2. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    I'm getting exhausted by how modern television is structured. The constant drip-feed of plot rather than actual progression each episode.

    Last week, got the SB-12 data, wait a week to see what it reveals, wait another week to see what the reveal reveals, repeat ad infinitum. It feels like we aren't getting proper cliffhangers where they should logically go. This episode would have ended much better if we got a "sir... the distress signal... its from Discovery!" stinger at the end rather than the soft endings we keep getting over and over again.
     
  3. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Picard has shown that the tech for basic immortality was available as early as the late 24th century. This has not yet been addressed in Discovery. We have no idea if Vance is as old as he looks or a lot older, and he has not stated whether his Burn experience was firsthand or secondhand.
     
  4. SJGardner

    SJGardner Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This kinda felt like filler for me. Overall, I liked that Discovery was able to help a planet again, continuing the theme of rebuilding trust in the Federation, planet by planet, but still. After the (for me, at least) emotional catharsis of last week and the upcoming two-parter, it seemed once again like those Game of Thrones episodes that are more about placing the pieces on the board where they need to be. Of course, the character interactions were great as usual, but it somehow feels more like an uneven conglomerate of lots of different parts than a solid whole. Burnham and Book's plot on the planet failed to engage me and it sometimes felt like we were just given disjointed glimpses of what actually happened there with the frequent cuts back to Discovery.

    I haven't read through the thread yet, but I can already imagine some people will blame Tilly for Osyraa seeing right through Discovery's ploy that she suggested and will hold it up as evidence for her incompetence and lack of experience which has now probably thrust the Federation into an an outright war with the Emerald Chain. But here's the thing: Saru didn't have a problem with it. Even Nilsson, who very correctly pointed out that Osyraa would interpret any sign of hostility on their part as an act of war, didn't object. If the captain and the second officer thought it was a good idea, they have the lion's share of the blame, not the officer who suggested it. And it's not like Saru can't shoot down another officer's suggestion... Picard did it to Worf all the time. Let's not mince words, it was a stupid plan, and I'm saying this as huge a fan of Tilly and of Discovery. Did they seriously think Osyraa wouldn't notice Book's ship leaving their shuttlebay?

    The B-plot with Hugh trying to figure out what's going on with Georgiou was, on the other hand, quite intriguing, even if it was only a set-up for next week's two-parter. I thoroughly enjoyed her verbal spats with Hugh, especially how he didn't take any of her bullshit because it was obvious she was antagonizing him so that she wouldn't have to admit how terrified she is. She also kept up her good habit of hilariously rude quips, with "I could deconstruct the both of you with a snappy insult and a withering glance." and "Her heart rate is elevated." "IT'S RAGE!" standing out. And of course, I LOLed at how Burnham already knew she would say "I killed her" when told that her mother must be very proud. Granted, she IS predictable in some ways.

    Paul and Adira continue to have a cute mentorship dynamic, and the scene where they opened up about the avalanche of feelings thrust upon them because of joining was quite beautiful. Their experiences reminded me of what Ezri went through, so we are once again reminded why a candidate needs to be fully prepared before joining. I've found their coming-out quite realistic in that they immediately clarified the matter after Paul misgendered them, however, I found it a bit weird that they were so taken aback by Paul readily accepting them. It's almost as if they didn't expect him to be so understanding, which I think should be much more a 21st century sentiment than a 32nd century one. But then again, I'm not a member of the LGBTQ community, so my feelings are not exactly authoritative on this.

    Observations:
    • The knowledge that Ryn is played by Mary Wiseman's IRL husband actually hurt their scenes a bit for me because I kept seeing what I thought were morsels of their IRL chemistry in their interactions to the point that I thought he's being set up as a possible love interest. When she said "Uh-huh, try again" to Ryn after he rudely asked for the captain, I felt like her voice had a playful angle to it that made it impossible for me to see it as anything else than Mary talking to Noah. Even though it was, rationally speaking, just Tilly being Tilly. Oh well.
    • Osyraa was nonchalantly fiddling with a Picard-era combadge while she was talking to her nephew.
    • Hecapate is a Bajoran unit of measurement. Are they more prominent in the Emerald Chain than we've seen so far?
    • Saru trying to find his own way of saying "engage" and all of his attempts falling flat was a great running gag for me. It was just so obvious Tilly goaded him into doing it. I found it cute that he humored her and tried out her suggestion of "hit it", even though she herself looked like afterwards that she thought it was a silly one.
    • "Deal with me, universe!" "Oh yeah, deal with me, universe, while I deal with her!" Keyla/Owo confirmed, and you can't tell me otherwise! I'm not listening! Ahem. Keyla getting her moxy back was nice to watch, but I would've loved if the episode devoted more time to it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  5. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

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    The lighting was striking at times. I wondered how much of it was natural and how much was manufactured.
     
  6. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I honestly seem to remember we got better cliffhangers from the first two seasons. I think the real issue here is Season 3 is really trying to play it ultra-safe, harkening back to classic Trek, which means ending on some sort of heartwarming up note.
     
  7. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Back to TOS where the crew ended the episode laughing regardless of how horrific the events in said episode was? :sigh:
     
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  8. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I believe the show you're looking for is "LOWER DECKS" for that kind of detail about secondary characters.
    :techman:
     
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  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't that tragedy just hilarious!?:guffaw:

    Oh, wait...:sigh:
     
  10. Midquest

    Midquest Captain Captain

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    Sep 22, 2017
    I noticed that. It's not quite the same shape as Iceland, but it does look like someone took the basic map and retooled the peninsulas and fjords.
     
  11. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    You're conflating nuTrek with the nebulous "modern television." You're also confusing plot with story.

    Most serialized shows (the really good ones anyway) are very story-heavy and light on plot. The plot is just the framework for the richer story.

    nuTrek, however, is entirely plot - or rather a series of events intrinsic to the high-concept - but quite light on greater narrative.

    Take The Crown resent season, for example. It's plot is nothing more than a series of mostly accurate historical events spanning a decade. But each episode constructs a deeply engaging narrative built around its historical figures (one of whom happens to be one of the most universally beloved people in human history**) onto itself beyond the basic plot such that the viewer doesn't mind the slow passage of time.

    **While that's an advantage, it's certainly not a requirement.
     
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  12. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commodore Commodore

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  13. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Tilly's character arc was mishandled once they realized Mary Wiseman was cast (Mary's a decade or more older than Tilly). As soon as she was, they should have rewritten Tilly from being a cadet to being a lieutenant or something. That way she won't get the appearance she does now of jumping over more experienced officers and seeming to just get ahead because she's Saru's favorite.

    Tilly should have been introduced as female Barclay or a less extreme version of junior lieutenant Picard in Tapestry (the alternate timeline where his career stalled after avoiding getting stabbed in the heart). Basically a good officer who's been in Starfleet for some years but her career stalled due to emotional and self-esteem issues. Saru would then recognize the potential in her, give her opportunities to build her self esteem and confidence, and we'd get a good arc that doesn't seem forced like it does now.
     
  14. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    DS9 had an overarching plot during its final years but hung a very interesting narrative on that plot and one that gave the writers plenty of wiggle room to sidetrack and give us standalone stories focusing on individual characters that were entertaining or classic in their own right. That's one thing I don't like about a streaming season of only 10 to 15 episodes. There's precious little time to veer off in another direction and do engaging standalone episodes that still have the main plot or story arc as the backdrop but let the writers and actors play a little and relax with different material.

    I know a lot of fans like this shortened, more narrowly-focused format but at least when we had 22 to 26 episodes per season there was a greater chance of getting real gems and ones that could stand apart from the rest of the year's stories.
     
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  15. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    DS9 is a good example of how episodes weren't entirely focused on the lead character. Burnham is the main character in every. single. episode. I like Burnham but it's too much. People are trying to say Trek was always like that and claim every episode centered around the captain before, but it wasn't.

    There are tons of episodes where Sisko is hardly there. The "O'Brien must suffer" episodes. The Ferengi episodes. The Worf centered episodes.

    We need more of that. We need more Nilsson. We need to see Rhys and Bryce hanging out on the holodeck together. We don't need all Burnham all the time, and I imagine even Sonequa wouldn't mind breaks from what I"m sure is a grueling filming schedule for her.
     
  16. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Another casualty of having to cram an entire year's overarching story into 10 to 15 episodes. No time for anything else.
     
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  17. Flux Capacitor

    Flux Capacitor Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Has it already been pointed out that Osyraa appears to be played by two different women (or at least looks drastically different between scenes) in this episode? Or am I missing something?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I could be wrong but the eyes and chin look like they're the same actress but the nose on the left is filmed at a different angle which makes it hard to tell if we're looking at the same actress from head-on in the second image.
     
  19. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Hard to say. Only thing to do is image search Janet Kidder (the only actress credited as Osyraa) and see if she matches up to both these images.
     
  20. Flux Capacitor

    Flux Capacitor Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To me the chin looks different, as does the nose. The biggest difference is the hair on her forehead.