I've seen more than enough Village People videos to know that men in the US Navy were definitely getting it on
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
In fairness I agree with @SJGardner that comparison with Wesley isn't fair - he was a child, and although Picard gave him a set of Junior Pilot wings and some coloring pencils, he wasn't a real officer. Tilly is a better comparison to Kim, or Worf, or LaForge, or Nog, or the other green or low ranked people we've seen. Most of them we saw having promotions or being put in charge of departments, and Worf essentially commanded the Defiant by the end of his tenure, but Tilly going straight from Ensign to XO is JJverse level quick and without the inbuilt "cheat code" that JJ had of the established character of Captain Kirk. It stretched believability a bit far for me, especially showing every eligible candidate cheering her on.
Because everybody in the Federation does? The Vulcans were still very much Feds when this happened - perhaps more so than before, the experiment being dictated upon them from on high and all.
The Burn being in 3019 would give a slightly different fix than Booker's guesstimate, but not grossly so. And it would be our first real fix, beyond "over a century ago". (Or then it's a total coincidence, or more related to the filming having been conducted in 2019 than to anything else.)
Timo Saloniemi
Just watched it. I give it an 8 only for the Vulcan plot, the Tilly promotion, did not bother me as much as I thought it would (just another unnecessary Trek device that they have a habit of doing for 50 years).
I was hoping that the hero/star not getting what she wanted re the data would stick...oh well.
I was hoping that the hero/star not getting what she wanted re the data would stick...oh well.
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Yes, but isn't the point that the name "SP-19" refers to a project which preceded the Burn...?
Burnham and Tilly know that there sensor network was out there and already up and running, in fact well-established with multitudes of sensors across Federation space, and then Vance fills in some of the gaps about what the project was actually intended to be: a replacement for warp drive as the Federation's primary mode of interstellar travel -- but all of that was in place before the Burn and the sensors just picked up the data when the Burn happened.
I don't recall anything being said about the time-lag between the initiation of the project (which is presumably when it acquired its name) and the later (?much later) date when the Burn occurred.
Even if it was named using the ubiquitous Terran calendar, that could be 3019 as the project start date and the Burn occurred, what, 140 years prior to 3189 -- so some time around 3049, some thirty years after the start of the project (if 3019 actually is the reason for calling it "SP-19"), which could be about right...?
"SP-19" = Special Project 3019...?
Burnham and Tilly know that there sensor network was out there and already up and running, in fact well-established with multitudes of sensors across Federation space, and then Vance fills in some of the gaps about what the project was actually intended to be: a replacement for warp drive as the Federation's primary mode of interstellar travel -- but all of that was in place before the Burn and the sensors just picked up the data when the Burn happened.
I don't recall anything being said about the time-lag between the initiation of the project (which is presumably when it acquired its name) and the later (?much later) date when the Burn occurred.
Even if it was named using the ubiquitous Terran calendar, that could be 3019 as the project start date and the Burn occurred, what, 140 years prior to 3189 -- so some time around 3049, some thirty years after the start of the project (if 3019 actually is the reason for calling it "SP-19"), which could be about right...?
"SP-19" = Special Project 3019...?
Thank you for that. I wasn't sure of my own spelling when I did my post.
I don't see how this would be an issue. The Vulcans feel the project caused the Burn. So it being labeled for the year during which the Burn happened would make plenty of sense. That is, if the label applied to the year during which the project would be put to action, rather than to the one during which it was initiated, and even in the latter case we'd have a problem only if there was a significant difference between the two.
According to Vance, SB-19 was the insta-travel project, and the sensors were just subordinate to that. Nothing need have been in place significantly before the Burn, and regardless, the Burn and the label on the tin could both relate to the moment the Head Pointy-Ear pressed the fateful button to initiate the Great Experiment.
Yup. But 3019 for the Burn could also be right. We just haven't been given enough detail yet. (Memory Alpha assigns sharp years to the events, but wholly without onscreen basis - we don't really know when Ni'Var seceded, say.))
"SP-19" = Special Project 3019...?
The subtitles do give it as SB-19, just like Vance pronounces it.
Timo Saloniemi
I agree with most of what you say but I think this part in particular is the bit that is the most jarring -- and that's why it's just dumb writing.
Science fiction and fantasy story-telling is all abut willing suspension of disbelief on the part of the viewer or reader. All that guff about FTL travel, multiple species across multiple star-sytems and wild adventure with last-minute technobabble solutions to improbable problems and last second deus ex machina rescues from certain doom for all the galaxy -- we accept all of that because it's fun and that's the nature of the story being told and it has it's own sort of rules (albeit they're flexible rules to allow the writers and creative teams some leeway because it's about telling the story, not about fan OCD).
Things like making a very junior officer with less than a year of post-graduating operational experience the XO of a complex ship that has a unique role in a difficult environment go beyond that. It fails from a story-telling point of view precisely because it is SO jarring that it pulls you out of the moment; it breaks your willing suspension of disbelief. The fantasy stuff about situations and made-up science and made-up tech is there to be the vehicle for the characters, the people, and that's how you get away with it. But pull that unrealistic shit when it comes to the people themselves and it just doesn't work.
"Sorry Admiral, I made a poor call because I wanted to believe in my friend -- but ultimately my most senior officer wasn't up to the job of being my executive officer and was not responsible enough to be in a position where she may have to take over the ship if anything happens to me. I have therefore decided to give the position to my most junior officer instead."
WTF...?!
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Yes, I get all of that -- but I don't understand why you're equating the "19" part to the year of the Burn. The SB-19 project had clearly been around for some time prior to the events of the Burn and from the dialog, it already had its title. Am I missing something?
Don't know. But unlike Young Spock, Nimoy had a speaking part here.
In ST09, Kirk graduated SFA as a LT.
Which was also bollocks really but, y'know, because MU-story...
Actually, I totally get the Tilly group hug "say yes" scene. Who wouldn't want a young, eager to please, inexperienced XO who feels awkward in her position? Not one bit of work would get done on that ship, because everyone would be pulling Tilly's strings, emotionally manipulating her ("I just miss my mom so much, and some days, I dunno. What's that? I should take the rest of the shift off and you'll cover for me? Oh Tilly, I love you, you're the best Number One in Starfleet!" [transporter sparkle]
Not at all. I just feel we could treat the project name like humans would: if we assign years, we look forward to the delivery date. Say, the NH-90 chopper was going to be the new thing that would standardize European battlefield air transport in the nineties - it was only delays that put a lie to that. The DD-21 was gonna deliver a destroyer for the 21st century, even if declared in the nineties (and never mind the delays of that!). And so forth.
The project would exist "in theory" till the D-Day. And it would be on Delivery Day that it would cause the Burn, because merely preparing for the experiment apparently didn't Burn anything, but Vulcumulans clearly believed the experiment itself had. Apparently, somebody tried to make a starship jump on D-Day, and instead everything Burned. And if the Federation had scheduled the D-Day of SB-19 to 3019, I think the Romcans would not fail to deliver in time. (Failing would be so illogical that they'd blow up the planet out of shame!)
Timo Saloniemi
Is that pronounced like "cumin" or, well, the other one?
While I agree with you that this is not a Covid reference, it wouldn't be impossible...a re-write could have happened as Covid first was known to the world in Nov/Dec 2019, hence the "19". The show had 3+ months of filming at that point.
And do Vulco-Romulans mate once every 7 years or go at it every weekend like Marek and Soji. Not sure show well Vulcan men would get on with some of the kinky Romulan women we have seen
Is that for real?It obviously refers to Spock/Burnham..........just like The Burn is named after Burnham
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