Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I don't know. I think it was a good episode. Conversely I think anything Voyager or anything related to Voyager is utter crap.
So yeah I had I known she was a Voyager writer, (even if she only did novels), I might have gone into watching this episode with some preconceived notions about her writing ability; but she did pretty good for this Discovery episode IMO.
It amazes me that people try and use the Kelin timeline to justify this lunatic appointment.
^^ I like your interpretation of that Scionz. We can add to the analogy with the fact that we see at least 3 of the core founding worlds, if we count the Andorians being part of the Chain, as no longer part of what remains of the Federation. Like with the Romans, as the western Roman empire fell and splintered, and Rome itself was sacked several times over, but the eastern empire continued to flourish for hundreds of years, now based out of Constantinople.
As far as planetary defenses go, DS9's Breen attack on Earth was always the odd one out for me. Why didn't Earth have sufficient static defenses to defend it, if the fleet was stretched thin as it was? I like the analogy of people becoming complacent and using the city wall's stones to build their houses with, as the Federation did grow accustomed to its core worlds being at peace. One would have thought however that Wolf 359, or the Borg attack from First Contact, would have awakened the Federation to the risk still involved.
Kirsten Beyer has written close to a dozen Voyager books - she took over the post-finale series from Christie Golden and has been the only author to write for the series since. I've read these books and have mostly enjoyed them, and they have generally been well received in the Trek Lit forum for their character work. Having not seen Picard, I cannot judge her work there. I find it difficult to draw analogies between the writing of a book and an episode. You can't compare a 40-minute episode with 400 pages for a book, and there is always the interaction with the rest of the creative staff which I assume is much. much less for the novels.
Last edited:
It amazes me that people who have such a problem with Tilly, for the most part have zero issues with a 14-year-old becoming the helmsman of the Federation flagship 1701-D by TNG's second season, (Not to mention even remaining on the ship as his mother was made head of Starfleet Medical) and near the end of TNG's third season becoming a full-fledged officer, wearing the actual Starfleet active duty uniform; without ever having spent one day at Starfleet Academy itself.
And let's not mention the fact that they kept all these experienced lieutenant commanders, and commanders on one ship; AFTER LOSING a majority of their skilled and experienced ship officers in the Borg cube conflict at the beginning of season 4. In
But hey TNG was true Star Trek.
The Breen attack on Earth and lack of defenses to me showed that Earth had become fat and complacent, maybe they hoped someone else in the Federation would pop along and help them, who knows? Just that to me smacked of a very complacent Earth.
Beyer's first episode was a bit different, but this one displays some of the same flaws as Stardust City Rag over on Picard. The most obvious of these being small quadrant syndrome, where characters show up in inexplicable places just because of "rule of cool." Also the peppering of the episode with little bits of deep dive Trek trivia that no one but the most hard-core Trek fans will pick up on.
I can see that being something people desire in a Trek novel I suppose, but that's not what I watch Trek for.
I was only a kid at the time, but I'm pretty sure everyone hated Wesley with the heat of a thousand suns - particularly in the early seasons.
Oh, I suspect many of us dislked that creative choice as well. I have no issues with Wesley doing a bit of an internship with Starfleet while his mom was on the ship, but certainly not on the bridge. It also exposed a great deal of problems with the Federation education system, its labor laws and Picard's command decisions. I mean, technically Wesley was a child skipping school hours and working an adult job with the captain's concent. Tilly at least is an academy graduate. The issue is less I think with her own capabilities than it is with those of her more senior crewmates being passed over.
I don't think Burnett makes any significant mention of Muslims (it was late when I watched his video). His argument is roughly:
- Vulcans have largely been associated with Jewry because of the incorporation of Jewish elements into practice and the preponderance of actors with Jewish backgrounds who have played Vulcans.
- Discovery has gone out of its way in this episode to depict Vulcans as prejudicial and racist. In spite of the season's premise of the Burn and the political problems that follow therefrom, Vulcans should have shown more tolerance toward Romulans as well as more appreciation of the desire to bring the Federation back together. In essence, the superior intelligence of Vulcans should have cancelled out the negative political effects of the burn, and the society of Ni'var should have continued to progress.
- One scholar has linked this episode to critiques of imperialism and its treatment of minorities (he read out an entire facebook post the scholar made).
- Based on the Jewishness of Vulcans, the particular setup, and the critique of imperialism, the situation presented in episode strongly resembles Israeli-Palestinian relations and the situation in the West Bank.
Lack of defenses? The Breen attackers were slaughtered. What did they achieve for their troubles? Three columns of smoke coming out of San Francisco, plus the span of a decorative bridge cut. This in an era where individual starships can slag continents and fleets can strip a planet down to its mantle. I'd say Earth could sleep through attacks of that sort in the future.
As for the Tilly issue, it's basically part of Saru being so alien in his thinking. I can't blame him for wanting a yes-woman on his side for a change, but his true motivations might be more outer-space than that. Certainly his saint-grade patience is foreign to most hierarchical organizations.
Intriguingly, what he runs here is a meritocracy that is directly competing with the one Starfleet usually establishes aboard its ships. His underlings are mad scientists all, if they aren't related Igors. They have little respect for brass to start with, and were weaned of what little they might have had by Lorca. They probably would love to be governed by a whiz kid.
Or at least the likes of Stamets, Reno and perhaps Nilsson would. Detmer, Owosekun and the rest of the bridge lot are more from the mold of career soldiers, so having them buy the concept requires more assumptions about their psyche and state of mind.
Timo Saloniemi
Here's how I see the events of Unification III, which I gave a rating of 10, the highest of the season so far.
Data was with Picard through most of Unification I & II, and he records everything in his memory files, so that's how they had Spock's speech on record.
Tilly is super smart, thinks outside the box, isn't afraid to speak her mind, but does respect the chain of command. Seems like a good choice for temporary first officer to me.
Mother Burnham had 'absolute candor' written all over her in season 2. She fit right in with that Romulan nun group. I'm glad she didn't just fall into a black hole and was lost forever, for Michael's sake, if nothing else.
This episode felt the most like an Original Series show. I heartily approve.
Data was with Picard through most of Unification I & II, and he records everything in his memory files, so that's how they had Spock's speech on record.
Tilly is super smart, thinks outside the box, isn't afraid to speak her mind, but does respect the chain of command. Seems like a good choice for temporary first officer to me.
Mother Burnham had 'absolute candor' written all over her in season 2. She fit right in with that Romulan nun group. I'm glad she didn't just fall into a black hole and was lost forever, for Michael's sake, if nothing else.
This episode felt the most like an Original Series show. I heartily approve.
Wrong wrong wrong.
TNG fans for the most part hate Wesley and Wheaton has been a punching bag for 30 years in Trek fandom. "Shut up Wesley" is possibly Treks biggest meme so try harder with your whataboutery.
Tillys appointment has nothing to do with TNG or DS9 or or anything else and should be judged on nothing other than the event itself
Oh I intend to. Before this episode I was debating whether it was worth the effort and time to continue the slog of watching this series to the end, but thankfully this episode has made my mind up for me.So just stop watching then......
But he didn’t get the promotion in one day it took him a few seasons. Also Wesley was a genius. Levels far surpassing Tilly.
Hardly seems they're on about the same intellectual level. And again Kelly was a cadet for at least a year before she joined Discovery; and have since served two years on the ship.
Ultimately, piloting the vessel is not a day one activity for any new recruit, regardless of intellect.
Arguing about Tilly being the ACTING First Officer is moot.
It's done.
Time to see how she fares.
Though I bet Tilly could hold her own with him on an Intellectual level.
Even Stamets has admitted she's no slouch.
It's done.
Time to see how she fares.
Wesley was an Enhanced Human, not a fair comparison.
Though I bet Tilly could hold her own with him on an Intellectual level.
Even Stamets has admitted she's no slouch.
Last edited:
Yeah, we say that in America too.
The "problem" is actually using "Burnham's" which means the pop up belongs to Burnham. I assume you meant "Burnhams", more than one. Which is a bit hyperbolic.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
