Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x01 - "That Hope Is You, Part 1"

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I would like there to be a successor state that basically includes the coalition of planets, the territories of union earth, Vulcan High Command, Tellar Primer and andorian empire

That's exactly what the Federation was!

Me, I want the Federation to be restored. Fully. I was never a fan of its destruction - it makes it rather difficult to watch existing Trek, knowing what will eventually happen .

At least if the Federation is reborn, it wasn't all for nothing.

 

[fireproof78]

- it makes it rather difficult to watch existing Trek, knowing what will eventually happen .

Because...???

Not to sound too insensitive but this is a point of view I genuinely struggle with. So, 1000 years from Trek the Federation collapses and that makes all those stories meaningless? I mean, I know Trek is fantasy and people need the fantasy escapism type thing but is it really a place of "I can't enjoy other Trek because 1000 years later it will all collapse in on itself?"

 

[Yistaan]

That's exactly what the Federation was!

Me, I want the Federation to be restored. Fully. I was never a fan of its destruction - it makes it rather difficult to watch existing Trek, knowing what will eventually happen .

At least if the Federation is reborn, it wasn't all for nothing.

This show could venture into some hard questions. Like what if the various species don't want to go back to the Federation?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So, 1000 years from Trek the Federation collapses and that makes all those stories meaningless?

It could be interpreted that way, yes. Kind of a black cloud hanging over everything.

And don't even try to tell me that, in-universe, there aren't at least a few crewmembers on the Discovery thinking that way, either. I can just see the wheels turning in their heads. "This shining city on a hill, that we worked so hard to build...and THIS is what happens to it?"

For example: Let's say you built the house you live in. Took you ten years at least. Then it gets struck by lightning and burns to the ground. You wouldn't feel too good about that, would you? All that effort...wasted?

 

[Yistaan]

And don't even try to tell me that, in-universe, there aren't at least a few crewmembers on the Discovery thinking that way, either. I can just see the wheels turning in their heads.

The Discovery crew are going to need some massive help in regards to mental health. They gave up their entire lives and everything they knew with no way of going back under the belief that they were necessary to help Burnham in the 32nd century. Yet within 1 day already she's met new friends, got in touch with what's left of the Federation and set up shop. Basically, the other Discovery crew weren't really needed and they gave up their old lives for nothing.

Also, if Mirror Georgiou somehow finds a way back to the 23rd century for a Section 31 show, won't she just tell everyone about the Burn and they'll try to prevent it?

 

[fireproof78]

It could be interpreted that way, yes.

And don't even try to tell me that, in-universe, there aren't at least a few crewmembers on the Discovery thinking that way, either. I can just see the wheels turning in their heads. "This shining city on a hill, that we worked so hard to build...and THIS is what happens to it?"

For example: Let's say you built the house you live in. Took you ten years at least. Then it gets struck by lightning and burns to the ground. You wouldn't feel too good about that, would you? All that effort...wasted?

I mean, I am building the house I will live in. I would go "Yes! Homeowners insurance and it can be built right instead of my amateur hand." Only half-joking here.

But, there's a huge difference between my house in ten years, and 1000 years. While I can appreciate the Discovery's crew reaction (hey, let's look at Charles Heston type reaction). That makes sense in context. And, if I journeyed a 1000 years in the future I wouldn't expect my house to be around.

But I wasn't talking about the crew. I was talking about the attitude that a person can't enjoy Trek without going "Ah, man, but it's all going to suck." Like, that's such an odd way to me.

The Discovery crew are going to need some massive help in regards to mental health. They gave up their entire lives and everything they knew with no way of going back under the belief that they were necessary to help Burnham in the 32nd century. Yet within 1 day already she's met new friends, got in touch with what's left of the Federation and set up shop. Basically, the other Discovery crew weren't really needed and they gave up their old lives for nothing.

Let's me real. Star Trek fucking sucks when it comes to mental health, has rarely depicted it accurately and never will.

 

[SG-17]

That's exactly what the Federation was!

Me, I want the Federation to be restored. Fully. I was never a fan of its destruction - it makes it rather difficult to watch existing Trek, knowing what will eventually happen .

At least if the Federation is reborn, it wasn't all for nothing.

We don't know yet if the Burn was something that was always going to happen or if it was some time fuckery (either caused by/related to Discovery or not) that the Crew is going to find a way to fix.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, much like the Federation never having existed and Earth being in ruins in the 31st century alternate future of "Shockwave, Parts I and II(ENT)" this could be another future that can be changed and repaired by the series leads.

The rubble-filled future Daniels took Archer to was only going to happen because of what Daniels described as a mistake and could be fixed by Archer finding a way to communicate with his shipmates in the past and defeat the Suliban.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Discovery crew are going to need some massive help in regards to mental health. They gave up their entire lives and everything they knew with no way of going back under the belief that they were necessary to help Burnham in the 32nd century. Yet within 1 day already she's met new friends, got in touch with what's left of the Federation and set up shop. Basically, the other Discovery crew weren't really needed and they gave up their old lives for nothing.

If they somehow manage to light the spark that DOES restore the Federation, then it won't be all for nothing.

If.

That being said, yes, you're right, there are going to be those on the Discovery who would be rather shocked to find that the Federation to which they've given their lives, now lies in ruins. Saru is going to have to whip up one hell of a motivational speech to shake them out of their funk.

Also, if Mirror Georgiou somehow finds a way back to the 23rd century for a Section 31 show, won't she just tell everyone about the Burn and they'll try to prevent it?

Why would she want to do that? MU Georgiou cares about no one but herself. (Par for the course in her universe.) If the entire galaxy burns to ashes she would just shrug and go "LOL, whatevs".

 

[fireproof78]

Why would she want to do that? MU Georgiou cares about no one but herself. (Par for the course in her universe.) If the entire galaxy burns to ashes she would just shrug and go "LOL, whatevs".

Maybe not. After all, no one to rule over at that point. So, she might save it, even for not purely selfless reasons.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I don't consider anything in the 32nd century to be "real." I think the end goal of the series now is to get Burnham and the Discovery crew back to the 23rd century where they belong. It won't happen this season, but maybe next year or in the finale. It could happen in the end of this season for a select few (Georgiou, most likely), and then more and more until finally everyone gets back.

I know the producers say otherwise, but I don't trust them. It's too tempting not to reuse assets between SNW and making more ties to TOS. Plus the L'Rell and Tyler stuff should be finished on Discovery and not exported to SNW or Section 31.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe not. After all, no one to rule over at that point. So, she might save it, even for not purely selfless reasons.

You're expecting Georgiou to have anything to do with the concept of "selfless"?

I mean, of course she DOES have to make it back to 2257 (for the Section 31 series) but if she actually has anything to do with preventing the Burn and/or restoring the Federation, I will be shocked to say the least.

 

[rhllot]

That's exactly what the Federation was!

Me, I want the Federation to be restored. Fully. I was never a fan of its destruction - it makes it rather difficult to watch existing Trek, knowing what will eventually happen .

At least if the Federation is reborn, it wasn't all for nothing.

the federation at the time of its creation perhaps but shortly after they began to recruit more spices such as denobulans

 

[Awesome Possum]

That's exactly what the Federation was!

Me, I want the Federation to be restored. Fully. I was never a fan of its destruction - it makes it rather difficult to watch existing Trek, knowing what will eventually happen .

At least if the Federation is reborn, it wasn't all for nothing.

You're eventually going to die, Earth will one day be uninhabitable, the sun will die and the universe will be a starless void, so why enjoy anything? Everything ends, that's why you find meaning in the time you have. In this case, it's going to be the characters restoring hope to a galaxy that desperately needs it.

 

[Yistaan]

Why would she want to do that? MU Georgiou cares about no one but herself. (Par for the course in her universe.) If the entire galaxy burns to ashes she would just shrug and go "LOL, whatevs".

You're expecting Georgiou to have anything to do with the concept of "selfless"?

I mean, of course she DOES have to make it back to 2257 (for the Section 31 series) but if she actually has anything to do with preventing the Burn and/or restoring the Federation, I will be shocked to say the least.

This is Section 31 we're talking about. If they know she has future knowledge they'll pry it out of her, willing or no.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You're eventually going to die, Earth will one day be uninhabitable, the sun will die and the universe will be a starless void, so why enjoy anything?

The difference is, none of us will be around to see that.

We *are* seeing this. It can't be un-seen.

This is Section 31 we're talking about. If they know she has future knowledge they'll pry it out of her, willing or no.

Somehow I think it's unlikely that there's anything Section 31 could do to Georgiou that she either can't resist or isn't expecting.

The Terran Empire's intelligence service from her home universe is probably a thousand times more ruthless than Section 31 could ever hope to be...

 

[Awesome Possum]

The difference is, none of us will be around to see that.

We *are* seeing this. It can't be un-seen.

It's fiction.

 

[Lord Garth]

You're expecting Georgiou to have anything to do with the concept of "selfless"?

I mean, of course she DOES have to make it back to 2257 (for the Section 31 series) but if she actually has anything to do with preventing the Burn and/or restoring the Federation, I will be shocked to say the least.

She certainly seemed to care when it looked like Burnham was about to die in "The Red Angel" right before Gabrielle showed up. Spock was the one -- the only one -- holding the line on no one saving Burnham. Georgiou, like everyone else, wanted to put a stop to it, but Spock wouldn't let them.

But, in fairness, it's been over a year-and-a-half since that episode aired, so it's easy to forget. I just re-watched it yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind.

Like when I re-watched all of TNG before PIC, I re-watched all of the first two seasons of DSC right before "That Hope Is You", so I wouldn't be relying on fuzzy memory.

 

[fireproof78]

You're expecting Georgiou to have anything to do with the concept of "selfless"?

I mean, of course she DOES have to make it back to 2257 (for the Section 31 series) but if she actually has anything to do with preventing the Burn and/or restoring the Federation, I will be shocked to say the least.

Whoops, that's supposed to be "selfish." My bad.

The difference is, none of us will be around to see that.

We *are* seeing this. It can't be un-seen.

And? There are many who treat TOS as an alternate timeline and so on and so forth. This is a fiction that can be interpreted as one wants. But, the reality is, we are all going to die and what we now know will become the next Stonehedge.

 

[DaveyNY]

the federation at the time of its creation perhaps but shortly after they began to recruit more spices such as denobulans

Yeah, those Denobulans and their Multi-Member, Parental Units sure are "spicy"!

(Freelove abounds on Denobula)