Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
It is obvious that Control has no sensors and definitely would never look at worlds where life might exist but not yet be technologically active.
Sounds like the Reapers in Mass Effect to me.
What do you mean his son will be grown? How long was the trip to Jupiter and back?
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I've found over the last two years that there really is no paradox. People who don't like the show simply don't like it. They try, and it's valiant, but they are kidding themselves. If you don't like the characters and you don't like the different approach to the franchise, one or two sporadic episodes you might like are the exception, not the rule. You just don't like it. Very, very simple.
As far as this argument over unearned sappy emotionalism vs. good solid character moments, it really is the defining telltale. If the goodbye scenes don't resonate with you, you just don't like the show and the characters. It's not complicated. Again, its valiant and loyal that people are trying, but it just ain't there.
Two and a half years.
This might even be the litmus test. If you're with the characters, you're with the show.
Precisely so. I completely agree. I feel like many of those who are not enjoying the characters (for whatever reason) try to hang on with vain hope or justification, like somehow calling it "Star Trek" will make it somehow work out.
It feels like a lot of case of wishful thinking rather than actual enjoyment.
But, are you saying that "Sorrow" lacks basic story structure? If so, I disagree. It has a distinct beginning, middle, and end.
The story is, DSC crew looks for a way to destroy the sphere data once and for all. The beginning is the crew preparing to destroy the ship. After attempting it, they find can't destroy DISCO and need to come up with another way.
The middle of the episode is the crew coming up with a new plan to make the ship unavailable to Control and, after realizing the full ramifications of the new plan, saying their goodbyes to relatives and friends.
The end is them implementing the plan to make the sphere data unavailable to Control. We'll find out how the plan works out and how the two parter and overall arc ends next week.
I'm not arguing how these parts fit into the various "acts" because frankly, I don't know much about that. I'm only arguing that the episode has a familiar story structure as does all of the 2 parters I can recall on DSC. I think this is a very basic thing that most all TV writers are very aware of and are able to accomplish.
OK that's a long trip.
We need Detmer "OH, NO YOU DIDN'T" memes from this shot.
I love that.
Well said!
Another fun episode recap from Super Anemic
http://superanemic.com/2019/04/12/d...80xts3RV24giNvwy0ZRXZHMC1pKex6Eviq6ETg7bjsjxg
http://superanemic.com/2019/04/12/d...80xts3RV24giNvwy0ZRXZHMC1pKex6Eviq6ETg7bjsjxg
Did anyone else find sarek and Amanda appearing to say goodbye somewhat bizarre?
Like is there any plot significance to them appearing? Was there any point beyond letting us know how much they love her? Because we already know that...
And would they not inform someone that discovery was in trouble?
Like is there any plot significance to them appearing? Was there any point beyond letting us know how much they love her? Because we already know that...
And would they not inform someone that discovery was in trouble?
Top secret ship on a classified mission?
I'm sorry, but you don't get to gatekeep who likes the show and what they're allowed to criticise. I enjoy Discovery and my favourite bit are the characters and the casting of those characters. They regularly elevate the bits that are cheesy or melodramatic with the strength of their performance. But those goodbye scenes were just dull, overlong and wrecked the building pace of the episode. Especially when two of them featured characters we know next to nothing about, and Stamets' is to some family member we've never heard of. It's hard to summon the sort of emotion they wanted from nothing. Tilly was the only goodbye scene that actually meshed well with the character established to date. Burnham's was saveable but the decision to have Sarek and Amanda just breeze on in as though they were passing on the way to the park, hours ahead of s31, threw that one out of whack. Would have worked fine by hologram.
Respectfully, I disagree about your point about the goodbye scenes being dull. It's unrealistic for these characters to not want to say goodbye to their families. They do have lives outside of Discovery. They're leaving those behind. It seems to me as if Michelle Paradise will further develop this core group of characters. Forward projection on my part. But what would you prefer? That nothing be done with these characters at all? Ever? They have to start somewhere.
And I don't think this is just a start. Earlier in the season, someone recommended Detmer becoming Chief of Security. I pointed out that would be out-of-character for her specifically because she said she'd been piloting since she was 12. And I countered that would be like making Tom Paris the Chief of Security. I knew an important thing about the character and was able to use that to argue against a suggestion someone else had made that would've been out of character.
Furthermore, the fact that we see multiple characters saying goodbye drives home the fact that they'll be saying goodbye to the 23rd Century. Between this and the Picard Series, this is essentially the end of almost two decades of some form of Prequel Trek as Star Trek moves into a new period of taking place further in the future than it ever has before. On two fronts.
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Course it is, but we don't have to see it. The decision to include it in the time we had is what I'm criticising. Cutting it out would have given more time for a framing story to give the episode more of an identity of its own, involving the planet and Queenie. A bit like there was a framing story around Kaminar which wasn't just furthering the arc.
Well we don't know that, and that isn't part of the in universe narrative. If that were the important thing, we'd focus on the characters we have met from this time as an audience such as Cornwell or L'Rell, rather than family members that have never been part of this story
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I think it's important to see these characters say goodbye to this period of their lives. Otherwise, we don't see them caring about the other side of the coin to their decision at all. If they don't care, I don't believe it. Because they do care, I do believe it. What if you suddenly decided to go to the year 3000? Should we gloss over that and just go to the next story point? No.
I agree that this episode doesn't stand entirely on its own. In fact, it's only half of an episode. It should've been aired as two hours. I don't blame this on the episode itself, I blame it on the decision to split it in half. It should've been a two-hour episode ala "The Way of the Warrior".
On that, we agree, the finale should have been one episode. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still think some significant editing needed doing in this first half, but it would have helped with the feeling that there wasn't a whole episode here.
If they don't move forward in time now, that would be a massive cop-out. I think you have a point about Cornwell, but that goodbye still might happen. As far as L'Rell, I don't want to speculate on that just yet. But why would anyone on Discovery want to say goodbye to L'Rell, besides Tyler? Tyler and L'Rell already essentially said their goodbyes in "Through the Valley of Shadows" when L'Rell recognized that she no longer saw Voq in Tyler, and Voq is who she really loved.
