Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x09 - "Project Daedalus"

[Rahul]

Awesome doubling down dude.

But the truth is: Season 1 WAS an attempt at "Game of Thrones in Spaaace!". And that aspect of the show backfired horribly. And now, since they have purged this aspect for season 2 - all the precious "nuances and subtleteys" you think people didn't noitice - work so much, much more better when they're embetted in their own interpretation instead of a shallow copy of something popular. It's not that people didn't notice these -- it's just that they were obviously over-shadowed by the larger identity of what the show was at the time (or was trying to ape).

In a same way: I really wanna' smack the Sheldon/Sherlock right out of Peck-Spock!
Because once that larger part is gone - I think the nuanced traits Peck brings to the character - could quite honestly work. That sadly doesn't change the fact that the main traits of this character, right now, are a horrible meme that overshadows the subtle nuances everyone brings to the table.

I think there's a problem where people are trying to shoehorn any new interpretation of a classic character into what is best known at the time. Its reductionist theory made via a pop culture lens. Its like watching S1 of Discovery and declaring "This is Game of Thrones in space!". Worse, it prevents these people who are insisting to reduce characters to others they are watching, like Peck's Spock into Sherlock/Sheldon, from seeing any nuance or subtley on display, because they are so devoted to creating this as a meme that they are blocking themselves (and attempting to block others) from enjoying Peck's interpretation.

Well yeah - that's what it is. If you're painting a picture - most people will start looking at the broad strokes, and then go into the details. If the broad strokes is a well-known meme - people will judge the entire painting as it, even if the lines are drawn differently. If you're painting an original picture though - that's when people start looking at the finer details.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I hope Detmer gets an episode with a bigger focus on her soon. Owo got the episode where they go down to the colony, and now Ariam got this one, so of our bigger supporting characters that just leaves Detmer to get her own episode.

I certainly hope she doesn't have to die in said episode, though. I adored the tiny bits we got of her this week.

 

[eschaton]

But the truth is: Season 1 WAS an attempt at "Game of Thrones in Spaaace!". And that aspect of the show backfired horribly. And now, since they have purged this aspect for season 2 - all the precious "nuances and subtleties" you think people didn't notice - work so much, much more better when they're embedded in their own interpretation instead of a shallow copy of something popular. It's not that people didn't notice these -- it's just that they were obviously over-shadowed by the larger identity of what the show was at the time (or was trying to ape).

Season 1 was not really attempting to be GoT in space. Not in the slightest. Game of Thrones is noted for having an epic scope, loads of characters, lots and lots of character development via one-on-one dialogue, many different factions - all of which are a different shade of gray - sniping around an existential threat...and stupidly gratuitous use of sex and nudity. Discovery's first season had none of those things at all.

Game of Thrones in Space is quite obviously The Expanse.

 

[Alan Roi]

Well yeah - that's what it is. If you're painting a picture - most people will start looking at the broad strokes, and then go into the details. If the broad strokes is a well-known meme - people will judge the entire painting as it, even if the lines are drawn differently. If you're painting an original picture though - that's when people start looking at the finer details.

I guess that's if people enjoy memes more than anything else or need them to do their thinking for them or as their cheat sheet to orient themselves. And after as many decades on the planet as I've had, I don't find much enjoyment in letting memes push me around, as they are too inaccurate to get much of a buzz from. There are only so many stories to be told, IMHO. The enjoyment for me is the finer details, so that is my starting point, not my end point.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I certainly hope she doesn't have to die in said episode, though. I adored the tiny bits we got of her this week.

"That bullet would've been fatal if it hadn't ricocheted off this metal piece in my head. Let me tell you the story of how I got it... *wooh ooh wooh ooh*

 

[Sakonna]

I was OK with it here, but I truly hope this isn't the beginning of a Walking-Dead-like pattern of tertiary characters having their first showcase episode also be their death episode. That's a storytelling structure with RAPIDLY diminishing returns. And just when the new actress won me over!

The stakes of the Section 31 story were defined in such an odd way. With everything going on, the most important thing to do is... regain access to the threat assessment AI? That seems like it should be a few more items down on the to-do list, especially since Cornwell's OTHER position was that Section 31 was pushing them to be TOO reliant on Control for their decision-making. Which one is it -- do we want to not get hooked on this AI, or is the most important thing to save the universe to regain immediate access to this AI?

Ethan Peck is really wowing me as Spock, though both Tyler and Culber were missed this week.

Maybe Nhan's transfer to security was not the best idea, given how easily she can be completely disabled. Though I loved that she's Barzan, I hadn't made that connection before. If they want to resurrect briefly-seen TNG aliens with breathing apparatuses, let's get a Benzite! The modern reinterpretation of that alien design could be great.

 

[Alan Roi]

Season 1 was not really attempting to be GoT in space. Not in the slightest. Game of Thrones is noted for having an epic scope, loads of characters, lots and lots of character development via one-on-one dialogue, many different factions - all of which are a different shade of gray - sniping around an existential threat...and stupidly gratuitous use of sex and nudity. Discovery's first season had none of those things at all.

Game of Thrones in Space is quite obviously The Expanse.

The Expanse does have some obvious similarities with GOT

Season 1 was not really attempting to be GoT in space. Not in the slightest. Game of Thrones is noted for having an epic scope, loads of characters, lots and lots of character development via one-on-one dialogue, many different factions - all of which are a different shade of gray - sniping around an existential threat...and stupidly gratuitous use of sex and nudity. Discovery's first season had none of those things at all.

Game of Thrones in Space is quite obviously The Expanse.

Which I guess is why The Expanse gets such unbridled praise. Its doing Game of Thrones in Space right!

 

[Rahul]

There are only so many stories to be told, IMHO.

That is probably the laziest justification for unoriginality possible - that pops up the most reliable everytime something is exposed to legit criticism, even if it's only for minor things.

 

[Rahul]

That's easy enough to explain. As with almost any ideology or movement, you're going to have your radical militants and your more mainstream advocates, who hold the same views but espouse them in more establishment ways: politics, books, speeches, etc.

It was briefly startling because, up to now, we've only heard about the "logic extremists" in the context of terrorism, but, when you stop and think about it, I have no trouble accepting that not all "logic extremists" are terrorists, because that's how things work in real-life. Not every believer of any cause is a bomb-throwing terrorist.

I think part of the problem is that they have never explained what a "logical extremist" actually is. Like, what is their motivation? What are their views and goals?

When the concept was introduced in "Lethe" I was thinking "Huh? That is interesting! I wanna' know more!" And no, a season later, they have repeatedly appeared and played larger roles - and we still don't know anything more about them. That's why they feel more like a plot device than a legitimate fraction at this point. I hope we will get to know them actually better in the future.

 

[Alan Roi]

That is probably the laziest justification for unoriginality possible - that pops up the most reliable everytime something is exposed to legit criticism, even if it's only for minor things.

Tripling down now. This is definitely the attitude of someone who wants to avoid the details like the plague.

 

[Rahul]

Tripling down now. This is definitely the attitude of someone who wants to avoid the details like the plague.

Huh? So far you are the guy that only ever delivers one-liners instead of arguments when challenged.

 

[Alan Roi]

Huh? So far you are the guy that only ever delivers one-liners instead of arguments.

And yet another attempt to spread a meme. Awesome. False. But Awesome in your sticking to your process.

 

[CorporalClegg]

That is probably the laziest justification for unoriginality possible - that pops up the most reliable everytime something is exposed to legit criticism, even if it's only for minor things.

And it's bunk. I would agree there's a finite (small even) number of plots. But plots =/= stories.

To put it another way, the total sum of human experience can probably be broken down and divided into a small number of relatively similar plots. But every person has their own story.

Good writers find engaging stories and engrossing drama within the plots available to them.

 

[Rahul]

And yet another attempt to spread a meme. Awesome. False. But Awesome in your sticking to your process.

Dude, honestly, if you disagree with me - that's perfectly fine. But goddamn write a post where you actually lay down why. Just writing "nu-uh" and expecting everyone must immediately assume your position because of that is really childish. I've written quite a few lines in response to you earlier - and all I got as an answer were your stupid meme-references. I can't read your mind, so I don't know what you actually think, beyond "quadroupling down".

 

[Alan Roi]

Dude, honestly, if you disagree with me - that's perfectly fine. But goddamn write a post where you actually lay down why. Just writing "nu-uh" and expecting everyone must immediately assume your position because of that is really childish. I've written quite a few lines in response to you earlier - and all I got as an answer were your stupid meme-references. I can't read your mind, so I don't know what you actually think, beyond "quadroupling down".

I did say why I disagreed with your Sheldon/Sherlock meme and pointed out my reasoning. You just completely ignored it and carried on with your meme. Its on the same page where you repeated the meme "Man of Steel" turned Superman into Batman. Which is also highly inaccurate.

 

[Franklin]

This episode sure passed the Bechdel Test, too. For what it's worth, the only talk at all about relationships was between Spock and Stamets and passing remarks between Burnham and Pike.

The show has no shortage of strong female characters up and down the cast.

The only real beef I have with the episode is it seemed Saru cracked the case a little too easily, and one wonders why someone didn't think of that earlier. But that happens.

 

[Noname Given]

Well yeah - that's what it is. If you're painting a picture - most people will start looking at the broad strokes, and then go into the details. If the broad strokes is a well-known meme - people will judge the entire painting as it, even if the lines are drawn differently. If you're painting an original picture though - that's when people start looking at the finer details.

When you start seeing gratuitous sex and nudity (and IMO there's nothing wrong with that at all as I like that in GoT over the years ) in Trek let me know, because that aspect was sorely missing for a "Game of Thrones...IN SPAAACE!"

 

[eschaton]

Which I guess is why The Expanse gets such unbridled praise. Its doing Game of Thrones in Space right!

I mean, I don't think The Expanse is anywhere near as good as early Game of Thrones was. Though it's much better than the show is now. One of the things it consistently gets right is the pace tends to be slow except around the climax of the season. There's lots of scenes where two characters are basically shooting the shit, either getting along or sniping, which don't have anything at all to do with the plot of the week. These shots work to establish who the characters are and their relationship with one another. It's not like Discovery now totally lacks these scenes - the interaction between Stamets and Spock was a great example of this. But for some reason Discovery would prefer to fill air time with expository dialogue or shakeycam rather than real human interaction (unless the plot absolutely requires it for the week).

 

[Rahul]

I did say why I disagreed with your Sheldon/Sherlock meme and pointed out my reasoning. You just completely ignored it and carried on with your meme. Its on the same page where you repeated the meme "Man of Steel" turned Superman into Batman. Which is also highly inaccurate.

You said the meme stops people from seeing the nuances. Which I even kinda' agree with, though I made clear that the "broakd strokes" (aka "the meme") is more important for judgement for the whole picture. You never made a point that "the meme" was actually not applicaple in this situation.

 

[Alan Roi]

I mean, I don't think The Expanse is anywhere near as good as early Game of Thrones was. Though it's much better than the show is now. One of the things it consistently gets right is the pace tends to be slow except around the climax of the season. There's lots of scenes where two characters are basically shooting the shit, either getting along or sniping, which don't have anything at all to do with the plot of the week. These shots work to establish who the characters are and their relationship with one another. It's not like Discovery now totally lacks these scenes - the interaction between Stamets and Spock was a great example of this. But for some reason Discovery would prefer to fill air time with expository dialogue or shakeycam rather than real human interaction (unless the plot absolutely requires it for the week).

In stories, scenes are about advancing the character, world and plot. There's more than one way to get this done. One isn't necessary more "real" than the other. It depends on how one wants to tell the story they are telling.